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Thread: Feminism

  1. #71
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post

    My biggest problem with feminism is that many feminists don't want to make men and women equal...they want to make them the same. Men are not women. Don't tell me that men and women should be treated the exact same in all circumstances, because that is bull shit. Saying that women should be treated exactly like men not only makes men appear greater than they are. It also downplays female strengths. It's wrong if a woman can't get a job? Yes. Is it wrong if a woman chooses to stay at home and be a mom? No. Women have strengths that men do not have and men have strengths that women do not have.
    I don't know of many feminists who would disagree with this. You don't lose your feminist card for staying home with your kids, as far as I know.
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  2. #72
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    I am saying that men and women are not the same and should be not be expected to be the same.
    I don't think most people responding have a problem with that. It's that in defining what one thinks fe/male roles should be which is the problem.

    Why not allow people to choose for themselves just what those roles mean to them instead of having it dictated as it's always been?

    This is Random.... I'm listening to Mortal Kombat's Theme song...and thinking of Sonya kicking ass but still made to look sexy somewhat made me think of how some feminists would attack that and some feminists would support that.

    Though she was one weak fighter and I hated playing her on my Sega as a kid! Gah! Talk about sexist game playing!! No need to remark on MK!

  3. #73
    Senior Member nottaprettygal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I don't know of many feminists who would disagree with this. You don't lose your feminist card for staying home with your kids, as far as I know.
    Actually, I think that you'd lose your card with second-wave feminists. However, now that third-wave feminism has arrived, it's almost impossible to get your card taken away from you.

  4. #74
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition View Post
    I don't think most people responding have a problem with that. It's that in defining what one thinks fe/male roles should be which is the problem.

    Why not allow people to choose for themselves just what does roles mean to them instead of having it dictated as it's always been? [/SIZE]
    Exactly. The choices I've made have been pretty traditional, for the most part- I got married at a fairly young age, stayed home, breastfed, all that jazz. The reason I'm a feminist is that I am grateful to people like Mary Wollestonecraft, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Sojourner Truth, and Louise Erdrich for the opportunity to CHOOSE this life rather than having it foisted on me by default because I was born with a certain set of genitalia. And the freedom to do what suits me as a human being based on my specific talents and interests, rather than doing woman stuff because I'm a woman.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    There are also people with rape fantasies and little kid fantasies, but that doesn't make it the norm.
    So when BDSM culture outgrows that of the normalcy of roles we are more familar with, will you then accept it? Assuming you didn't accept it for yourself (not hating it but just not preferring it), would you mind being called unnormal or unnatural? What is the norm except what is defined by the majority of society? That's the main point some of us are trying to make. I hope!

    I was being sarcastic. But your point is noted. I was saying that some roles have changed, but really they appear to have changed more than they actually have changed.
    Umm. Appearingly changed vs actual change? How can they appear to be so when we are seeing them...? Perhaps I'm confused? Could you elaborate please.

    Exactly. The choices I've made have been pretty traditional, for the most part- I got married at a fairly young age, stayed home, breastfed, all that jazz. The reason I'm a feminist is that I am grateful to people like Mary Wollestonecraft, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Sojourner Truth, and so on for the opportunity to CHOOSE this life rather than having it foisted on me by default because I was born with a certain set of genitalia.
    Yes! I would never tell a female she shouldn't stay home to raise her children as she see fits if her family's income allowed it or not, it's HER choice! As it's the male's choice to stay home as well. Or rather, it's not just HERS and HIS but THEIRS together. Creating a harmony on their distinct perferred wants and needs and desires!

  6. #76
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Gender is the roles and responsibilities attributed to sex by society. Society dictates how members of a certain gender are expected to be. So maybe you should provide examples of how they should be treated based on sex.
    Semantics. I'll try to think of some examples, though. The main thing that comes to mind, is those who think females should be allowed every career in the military...which is ridiculous imo. I can go into detail, but won't in this post.

    Are you saying that society should take up a "separate but equal" policy based on gender? Because I think that is what we are doing, and historically that is what we have done, and it doesn't really work too well.
    I honestly don't see what the problem is really. I know plenty of females who are on their way to being more successful than I probably will be and don't appear to have had much trouble.

    Yes, men and women are generally different. They have their own sets of weaknesses and strengths. That is why they should be allowed the same access to opportunities and privileges. Businesses, families, communities, etc. all work better when both sexes are involved in their operation.
    Yes, I would say that generally they should be allowed the same opportunites. I am just saying that they shouldn't be expected to act the same. It just seems to me like guys are expected, more and more, to adopt more traditionally feminine attributes, and likewise women for masculine attributes.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

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    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  7. #77
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition View Post
    Why not allow people to choose for themselves just what those roles mean to them instead of having it dictated as it's always been?
    :confused: That's exactly what I'm saying...

    I didn't intend to attack feminism. I'm saying that the people that take it too far are ridiculous. I don't have any problem with third wave feminism to my knowledge.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    Yes, I would say that generally they should be allowed the same opportunites. I am just saying that they shouldn't be expected to act the same. It just seems to me like guys are expected, more and more, to adopt more traditionally feminine attributes, and likewise women for masculine attributes.
    I think you've shown yourself, Morphy! I get where you're coming from! Popular media has scared your masculinity! lol jk! I wonder....:think:

    I don't think anyone is saying they should be expected to act the same. Some of us keep saying it's individual choice. It seems so to you that men are expected to adopt traditionally accepted feminine traits and vice versa. What we're trying to get at, or at least I am , is that it's a person's choice on what they want to do.

    I'm not going to tell you that you should be more this or that with regards to your sexual role as a male (that is what you are right, ol'flamin loins? keke). I'm trying to tell you that no one should define it for everyone, it should be decided by the individual. Or if so defined allow room for intrepretations and being more flexible with assumptions based on sexual roles/characters and all things not even related to sex/uality!

  9. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    Yes, I would say that generally they should be allowed the same opportunites. I am just saying that they shouldn't be expected to act the same.
    I may be mistaken, but I think, all of the participants are on agreement on this point.

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  10. #80
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition View Post
    I don't think anyone is saying they should be expected to act the same. Some of us keep saying it's individual choice. It seems so to you that men are expected to adopt traditionally accepted feminine traits and vice versa. What we're trying to get at, or at least I am , is that it's a person's choice on what they want to do.

    I'm not going to tell you that you should be more this or that with regards to your sexual role as a male (that is what you are right, ol'flamin loins? keke). I'm trying to tell you that no one should define it for everyone, it should be decided by the individual. Or if so defined allow room for intrepretations and being more flexible with assumptions based on sexual roles/characters and all things not even related to sex/uality!
    Right. and that's why I initially said it depends on how far they take it.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

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