User Tag List

First 56789 Last

Results 61 to 70 of 132

Thread: Feminism

  1. #61
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ExTJ
    Posts
    1,377

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ByMySword View Post
    I have no problem with women being treated equal as men at all. However, there are jobs and things that the MAJORITY of the time, only men can do, and the same goes for women. I don't believe everyone is born equal (meaning no one is exactly the same, and everyone has their strength and weaknesses), but I believe everyone should be treated with respect. I'll just leave it at that.
    Almost no one (in the general population thinking about feminism related issues, not just people in the thread.) is arguing about the equal respect. What people are arguing is that people shouldn't be expected to go into, or pushed to go into, certain jobs simply because they are male or female. The arguments for getting rid of male or female distinctions are that expectations are creating more of a gender difference in activities than would happen on its own. More males than females are likely to go into jobs needing a lot of strength, but the strength is the directly important element of the job, not what reproductive organs the person has.

    I'm speaking based on personal experiences. And I'm not saying that all of our actions should be governed by whatever our DNA says (even though, it probably is ultimately). I'm saying that there is no reason for Men and Women to behave -the same-. I'm not saying that men should dominate women in all aspects of life.
    As happens over and over, people tend to make arguments for this type of behavior based on statistical differences, where other, more directly measurably qualities, would be a better way for deciding how to treat individual people.

  2. #62
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    OMNi
    Posts
    2,790

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    I'm speaking based on personal experiences. And I'm not saying that all of our actions should be governed by whatever our DNA says (eventhough, it probably is ultimately). I'm saying that there is no reason for Men and Women to behave -the same-. I'm not saying that men should dominate women in all aspects of life.
    You are saying that men should act like men and women should act like women. And yet neither you, nor anyone, knows how a woman should act or a man should act. Therefore, there is no reason that anyone shouldn't be entitled to the same opportunities and privileges based solely on sex.

    Biologically, evidence says we should be matriarchal. Religion usually says we should be patriarchal. Maybe we should be equal. And maybe equality doesn't mean "same acting" it means having the same access to resources and opportunities.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  3. #63
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    3,466

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition View Post
    Act accordingly?--- Prey tell how you can say there should be respect for women and they should have rights to get jobs, but then say they should act accordingly? What IS acting accordingly for you then? By former and current definitions that's meant and still means for women to "stay at home" "be submissive" "look pretty, stay quiet" and so on. I know you'll say you don't believe in that but when you say such things it can imply it for others. This is partly why people have problems transcending what is taught to them or they are educated by memorising the info taught but do not have understanding of that info.
    You are putting words in my mouth. By -act accordingly- i meant, differently. Since I put, "they are inherently different." If I imply something else to others, then they are misunderstanding me.

    You are also generalising women 'espousing the fact' they are as strong as men yet won't respect men if they can walk over him'. Is that fact or just a guess?
    I was talking about feminists. I should have stated that specifically. And like I already said, it's based on my experience.

    Why would some women want to walk all over a man, who knows? Certaintly some men respect women who are strong individuals. It used to be thought those women were not attractive by society. Society changes and now it's attractive.
    I didn't say that we don't respect strong women. But it is different from what is generated by women's perception of strong men.

    Just as society once thought only macho masucline men were attractive and now there is attraction for more sensitive men.
    Oh. That must be why so many women are drawn to the nice guys.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  4. #64
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    3,466

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    You are saying that men should act like men and women should act like women. And yet neither you, nor anyone, knows how a woman should act or a man should act. Therefore, there is no reason that anyone shouldn't be entitled to the same opportunities and privileges based solely on sex.
    I am saying that men and women are not the same and should be not be expected to be the same. I was incorrect saying how they "should" act. But I -do- feel that they should not be treated as the same gender...because they aren't.

    As I pointed out originally...saying that women should be treated exactly like men is saying that women don't have strengths of their own.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  5. #65
    ByMySword
    Guest

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    My thoughts on feminism:

    It entirely depends on how far they go. Should females be able to get jobs? Yes. But don't simultaneously say that you can't hit them, and they should have the opportunity to be infantry.

    My biggest problem with feminism is that many feminists don't want to make men and women equal...they want to make them the same. Men are not women. Don't tell me that men and women should be treated the exact same in all circumstances, because that is bull shit. Saying that women should be treated exactly like men not only makes men appear greater than they are. It also downplays female strengths. It's wrong if a woman can't get a job? Yes. Is it wrong if a woman chooses to stay at home and be a mom? No. Women have strengths that men do not have and men have strengths that women do not have.

    Yeah, pretty much imagine that coming out of my mouth. I just didn't want to type that much. Thanks for doing all the work for me Meta. LOL.

  6. #66
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    9,849

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    Oh. That must be why so many women are drawn to the nice guys.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  7. #67
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    Zzzz
    Posts
    2,629

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    You are putting words in my mouth. By -act accordingly- i meant, differently. Since I put, "they are inherently different." If I imply something else to others, then they are misunderstanding me.
    I didn't put words in your mouth. I was pointing out definitions made by others who use "act accordingly". I stated you'd disagree with them but to point that out And my asking you what act accordingly was merely that, not to taunt you, but to ask you and you answered! Well, done! Though I disagree entirely!

    I was talking about feminists. I should have stated that specifically. And like I already said, it's based on my experience.
    Yes, bad Morphy for not being specific!

    I didn't say that we don't respect strong women. But it is different from what is generated by women's perception of strong men.
    And why didn't you tackle the BDSM Domme/sub, hmmmm?

    Oh. That must be why so many women are drawn to the nice guys.
    Hmm, hard to tell if you're mocking me but it feeeeeels like it! Anyhoo, I'm not dichotomizing such roles but merely pointing them out to show how society changes the perceptions of sexual roles. Even such dichotomies are perceived by society and altered as society changes.

    I'd like a well balanced person, myself, but some people believe that impossible!

  8. #68
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    OMNi
    Posts
    2,790

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    I am saying that men and women are not the same and should be not be expected to be the same. I was incorrect saying how they "should" act. But I -do- feel that they should not be treated as the same gender...because they aren't.
    Gender is the roles and responsibilities attributed to sex by society. Society dictates how members of a certain gender are expected to be. So maybe you should provide examples of how they should be treated based on sex.

    Are you saying that society should take up a "separate but equal" policy based on gender? Because I think that is what we are doing, and historically that is what we have done, and it doesn't really work too well.

    As I pointed out originally...saying that women should be treated exactly like men is saying that women don't have strengths of their own.
    Yes, men and women are generally different. They have their own sets of weaknesses and strengths. That is why they should be allowed the same access to opportunities and privileges. Businesses, families, communities, etc. all work better when both sexes are involved in their operation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  9. #69
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    9,849

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition View Post
    And why didn't you tackle the BDSM Domme/sub, hmmmm?
    Now that, is an entirely different topic!!!
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  10. #70
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    3,466

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition View Post
    And why didn't you tackle the BDSM Domme/sub, hmmmm?
    There are also people with rape fantasies and little kid fantasies, but that doesn't make it the norm.

    Hmm, hard to tell if you're mocking me but it feeeeeels like it! Anyhoo, I'm not dichotomizing such roles but merely pointing them out to show how society changes the perceptions of sexual roles. Even such dichotomies are perceived by society and altered as society changes.

    I'd like a well balanced person, myself, but some people believe that impossible!
    I was being sarcastic. But your point is noted. I was saying that some roles have changed, but really they appear to have changed more than they actually have changed.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

Similar Threads

  1. Works of fiction and feminism
    By Viridian in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: 09-21-2011, 10:29 PM
  2. Degrees of Feminism
    By Thalassa in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 275
    Last Post: 08-03-2011, 11:28 PM
  3. Feminism and WW2
    By nolla in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 06-22-2011, 03:08 AM
  4. To those who identify with some aspect(s) of feminism....
    By Qre:us in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 194
    Last Post: 08-13-2010, 06:47 PM
  5. Conservative Feminism?
    By Eileen in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 155
    Last Post: 03-23-2009, 01:10 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO