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Thread: Feminism

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    I would expect that the vast majority are men, though. If you have a job in which 5% are women (not speaking about mailmen...just a hypothetical example), then there's no point in making gender neutral statements. Plus, it's a pain in the ass. "men" is far more easy to say than "person"
    Well. It still seems like an assumption. The logical fallacy of accident. In this case, it happens to be about gender. Would you be as opposed to correcting other "fallacy of accident" type assumptions due to the expediency of using a particular term?

    "Cop" is fairly efficient, and far more natural sounding to me than "policeman." I wonder if there is a similar thing for firefighters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Are we going to open the whole can of worms, trying to go back an find every word that might have a possibly biased connotation which is allegedly poisoning our minds?
    I see no reason to oppose such a thing. If we can change the language with words like "google" as a verb, "doh" as an expression, and so on, I so no crime in trying gender neutral words to see see if any catch on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    My point was that I'm not going to change my speaking patterns so that I can make feminists feel better about themselves. They are capable of using logic. And yes, I am well aware of the power of langauge when it comes to mental manipulation. As long as people know that all mailmen are not male, then it doesn't matter how they initially associate it in their brain.
    Again, would any attempt to correct the fallacy of accident be met with the same reaction, or just the feminism related ones?

    Mind set is a powerful thing. Part of its power is derived from the fact that people underestimate it. To a very large extent, are minds are nothing but an accumulation of previous mind sets.

    One thing we need to keep in mind is that physical strength is becoming less and less important for most jobs. Since whatever meager statistical advantage males have over females in this regard are dwarfed by the advantages hydraulics and pneumatics have over humans.

    I know for a fact, that my own U.S.P.S mail carrier is a woman. The security guard on duty at my office is a woman (and a small one at that). The cop who did the D.A.R.E. campaign at my local schools was a woman.

    It would be plain wrong (i.e. inaccurate) to call them the mailman, and the policemen. You're telling me that doesn't cause the same sort of sense that of being inacurate as calling an apple a vegetable, or a mynx a dog?

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  3. #33
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    Food for thought...

    Parthenogenesis...it happens.

    God I wish I were gay!!!!!!!!!!

    I don't know about other females, but I find men so...what's the word...fragile.

    Yes, they might be physically stronger than us, and more aggressive, but their egos are made of the most delicate of porcelain.

    They sure do love to huff and puff, and wave their imaginary epically enormous cocks around......

    Emotional puppies, the whole lot of them.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition View Post
    Not entirely true as some feminist branches have differing views on that.
    Yeah, I was aware of the distinction. That's why I said it depends on how far they go.

    Some stress the value of both sexes equating to their own biological and physiological design. Some argue that due to hundreds of thousands of years imposing restrictions on women (i.e hunting vs gathering) designed specific traits needed for survival which became ingrained in the subconscious of women and men. Some believe that this can be changed if allowed to develop. Just as men can change as well (i.e Metrosexuals).
    That doesn't make any sense to me. There were obviously physiological differences to begin with or the males wouldn't have been able to dominate them initially.

    You say all that but you don't mention how they should be treated. I'm curious now!
    I think they should be treated well, obviously. I'm not entirely a chauvanist (sp). I am moreso talking about careers and opportunities, etc.

    In saying that then, which I agree, would you say men can stay home and raise the kids as well if he so chooses to?
    Yes.

    You're so silly. Maybe that's why I like reducing you into Morphy instead of that longer name you have!
    It was a reasonable point. I don't want to sift through every word to see if it has some kind of biased connotation.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

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    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    It wasn't that you agreed to disagree that bothered me. It was your last parthian shot of that post that bothered me.

    It's actually not a small choice to attempt voluntarily altering language on a broad scale. If you look into the history of the subject, you'll find it's a herculean task.
    And again, I state that I severely question the relevance of such a task.
    To me, it probably doesn't influence much in the fight for feminism. It's almost a red-herring from REAL issues.
    Look at many of today's words that are derogatory by nature. Look at the etymological roots and they were once something else entirely. The majority of people of the current society use and alter the meaning of words in order to create a psychological advantage against the minority. Whether it's men vs women, adults vs children, ethnicity vs ethnicity, country vs country, and so on.

    The relevance is that it frees people of the stereotypes that are ingrained and perpetuated in order to serve the biased needs of the people ong past. The meaning of words alter throughout the years after them, sometimes w/o purpose and the original meanings become archaic.

    "That's so gay!" when Gay was never about homosexuals to begin with but meant "Carefree/Happy" but became used to put that lifestyle down. I've even heard some LGBT people use it inappropriately w/o realising what they are saying. Ignorant people, deliberately kept ignorant by others, have no knowledge of the words they use.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    It wasn't that you agreed to disagree that bothered me. It was your last parthian shot of that post that bothered me.
    It wasn't meant as a parting shot.

    It's actually not a small choice to attempt voluntarily altering language on a broad scale. If you look into the history of the subject, you'll find it's a herculean task.
    What are you talking about "herculean task"? Language is changing everyday. It changes significantly every year. Just think of all the slang, jargon, and new words that are added every year. The change is taking place now and relatively easily. I had the chance to observe junior high students when I was an Education major and one of the things my class especially enjoyed from those observations was the change in language and the wide acceptance of gender neutrality in word choice. And that is in a Conservative state.

    And again, I state that I severely question the relevance of such a task.
    To me, it probably doesn't influence much in the fight for feminism. It's almost a red-herring from REAL issues.
    I've stated why it is important, and if you can't be bothered to argue my points beyond saying that you see no point, then I don't see any "relevance" in discussing it with you.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    I would expect that the vast majority are men, though. If you have a job in which 5% are women (not speaking about mailmen...just a hypothetical example), then there's no point in making gender neutral statements. Plus, it's a pain in the ass. "men" is far more easy to say than "person"
    I agree with that.

    But what I was trying to say with the mailmen example was that I do not associate the word "mailmen" or "mailman" with any gender, its just a word I'm used to saying so it comes out of me the odd time I'm refering to a mailperson.

    So it's been changed.

    Just as "gay" has been changed a few times. It meant happy, then homosexual, than crappy. "I'm gay" would have once meant happy. "He's gay" would have meant homosexual (in a derogatory sense), and now gay is either a neutral word ofr homosexual (where I'm from it is), or a word meaning "sucky", as in "thats so gay!". It's meaning depends on the context, but it, like mailman in ym case, has gone through transformations where it sounds the same but has a different meaning.

  8. #38
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    Food for thought...

    Parthenogenesis...it happens.

    God I wish I were gay!!!!!!!!!!

    I don't know about other females, but I find men so...what's the word...fragile.

    Yes, they might be physically stronger than us, and more aggressive, but their egos are made of the most delicate of porcelain.

    They sure do love to huff and puff, and wave their imaginary epically enormous cocks around......

    Emotional puppies, the whole lot of them.
    These posts are so instigative that they are practically trolling.
    I'm glad nobody has taken them too seriously so far.

    You don't describe me well. I am not the man you are thinking of.
    I do have a female friend with an enormous, sensitive ego, though.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    "Cop" is fairly efficient, and far more natural sounding to me than "policeman." I wonder if there is a similar thing for firefighters?
    I don't see how firefighter isn't a gender neutral term? I certainly wouldn't see the point in replacing a word like soldier with something like, "fighting person." Perhaps I am misunderstanding you, though.

    I see no reason to oppose such a thing. If we can change the language with words like "google" as a verb, "doh" as an expression, and so on, I so no crime in trying gender neutral words to see see if any catch on.
    Fair enough. I am merely weighing cost and benefit. It seems easy, on the surface, but it would be more effective to just let it fix itself as more women become cops and mailpeople.

    One thing we need to keep in mind is that physical strength is becoming less and less important for most jobs. Since whatever meager statistical advantage males have over females in this regard are dwarfed by the advantages hydraulics and pneumatics have over humans.
    Our only differences aren't physical strength, though. As much as females espouse the fact that they are as strong as men, I have yet to meet a single one who has any respect for a man that they can walk over...whereas males don't have a problem being in control (not to say that we appreciate weakness).

    I know for a fact, that my own U.S.P.S mail carrier is a woman. The security guard on duty at my office is a woman (and a small one at that). The cop who did the D.A.R.E. campaign at my local schools was a woman.
    Yes, and I don't have any problems with that. They obviously have their purpose. Now...would I want my fellow prison guard to be a woman for any reason other than dealing with female inmates? No.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    Food for thought...

    Parthenogenesis...it happens.

    God I wish I were gay!!!!!!!!!!

    I don't know about other females, but I find men so...what's the word...fragile.

    Yes, they might be physically stronger than us, and more aggressive, but their egos are made of the most delicate of porcelain.

    They sure do love to huff and puff, and wave their imaginary epically enormous cocks around......

    Emotional puppies, the whole lot of them.
    :rolli:

    Please. We all know you love us.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

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