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  1. #71
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    That's a moving target. The ability of modern medicine to save premature babies has already overtaken the later stages of legality in late-term abortion in some jurisdictions. It's quite possible now to have a prematurely born living infant (i.e. a real person) in a neo-natal ICU, while on another floor in the same hospital a fetal non-person, conceived on the same day, is being aborted. The difference between the two cases is the mother's decision.

    Curious, isn't it?
    It is a moving target. The law will often lag medical science, but I think that's the direction we're headed.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #72
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    How did they drop the ball, if the laws they made (or failed to make) reflected the will of their constituents? I don't see a problem with the issue being contested until a de-facto consensus arises (in most European countries, the compromise time limit for abortions is about three months, incidentally).
    I don't have a problem with how the issue has been addressed. I was just trying to help Beefeater focus his criticism. That said, Congress could always add a constitutional amendment to circumvent the courts.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #73
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    I'd be more in favour of a specific developmental timepoint rather than "survivability", personally.
    I think it's easier to address survivability, in the US, because it seems a little less arbitrary.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #74
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I think it's easier to address survivability, in the US, because it seems a little less arbitrary.
    I suppose it's easier to understand, yes. I'm not sure that makes it better.
    -end of thread-

  5. #75
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Back to the OP, here's some more news; apparently, the Grand Jury determined that the health authorities refused to investigate after 1993 (and possibly refused to shut down the clinic before that) for political reasons. Tom Ridge, a pro-choice Republican, was governor at the time, and I think it was Ed Rendell, a pro-choice Democrat, after that; I don't know if either were directly aware of this unspoken policy or not.

    http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opini...of_horror.html

  6. #76
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    So a few months days make the difference between being a doctor and being a murderer.
    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    That's a moving target. The ability of modern medicine to save premature babies has already overtaken the later stages of legality in late-term abortion in some jurisdictions. It's quite possible now to have a prematurely born living infant (i.e. a real person) in a neo-natal ICU, while on another floor in the same hospital a fetal non-person, conceived on the same day, is being aborted. The difference between the two cases is the mother's decision.
    Quote Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan View Post
    Also, has anyone ever stopped to ask why a woman would even get a late term abortion in the first place?
    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    We have such a large population, anyway... why are people going to such great lengths to interfere in abortions? It's not as though we won't have plenty of babies born to allow population growth either way.
    Quote Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan View Post
    ^Sort of have a similar mindset.

    I'm a proponent of abortion. Reason being, our population is so d*mn huge, and there are so many people who raise children that are completely unfit to do the job right. Why force those people to raise children they will not be attentive to, or will not be afford to care for properly? In this day and age, where humans are multiplying to the point of depleting a planet's resources, I think accidental pregnancy should be an arena we are more kind towards and allow the mother the make the right decision for herself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  7. #77
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Philadelphia is a very easy city in which to get an abortion. It's sad that anyone turned to this scumbag who was so negligent with women's health (to say nothing of the murderous procedures).
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  8. #78
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Oh, and the world's population is just fine. We've increased the world population by more than 50% since 1980 AND lowered the level of absolute poverty in the world from about 50% to 20-25%. Outside of a couple of less developed countries/regions, the big population problem is too few children and too many old people, not vice versa.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  9. #79
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    All the reasons I see for being bothered by this event are things I believe would happen more often if abortion were illegal.

    And that being said, you can't say this guy wouldn't have done what he did if there were laws against it, because there are laws against so many of the things he did. It is unfortunately hard to employ law enforcement to correct the negligence of law enforcement.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  10. #80
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    And that being said, you can't say this guy wouldn't have done what he did if there were laws against it, because there are laws against so many of the things he did. It is unfortunately hard to employ law enforcement to correct the negligence of law enforcement.
    Health departments and justice departments are separate agencies, aren't they?

    In terms of the magnitude of negligence involved, this eposode reminds me of the time when police not only failed to investigate accusations against Jeffrey Dahmer, they actually released an underage victim (later to be murdered) back into his custody.

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