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  1. #31
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Dismissive yet again.

    I don't know what your type is, and don't really care, but you seem like some of the self-described INTPs on INTPcentral.
    I believe we have reached a point whence more will be less.

  2. #32
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Umm, that's what has been done. You are trying to argue something that has already been settled.
    No, it hasn't been settled. The courts never establish the personhood/non-personhood of a non-viable fetus. They simply throw up their hands and say that whether or not a fetus is a person is beyond the courts discretion.

    As kennedy wrote in casting the deciding vote in Casey v. Planned Parenthood:
    "At the heart of liberty is the right to define one's own concept of existence, of meaning, of the universe, and of the mystery of human life."

    So the entire analysis begins and ends with the rights of the mother without ever establishing the rights of the child.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  3. #33
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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  4. #34
    Senior Member Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    . Allowing early-term abortions is a compromise, not a perfect solution because there is no perfect solution.
    Agreed.. But the aspect of pain is interesting.. Personally i would limit abortion to only rape victims and medically ill people and so on.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    The claims have not been refuted. Also: http://www.albertmohler.com/

  6. #36
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MatsNorway View Post
    Agreed.. But the aspect of pain is interesting.. Personally i would limit abortion to only rape victims and medically ill people and so on.
    If you think that through, you will, I believe, find some inconsistencies.

  7. #37
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    So a few months make the difference between being a doctor and being a murderer. Aside from the high price, I have absolutely no problem with this man's actions. It is a matter of definition when a life beings to be worthy of protection. I fail to see why a baby without any experiences, without any grasp of what it is losing, a being without self-awareness should be protected if no one wants it. In the state of nature, it would die, too.
    I see your point. But in terms of a developing fetus, yes, a few months make that much of a difference.

    Also the mother would be tried with murder if she gave birth and left the infant in the state of nature to die.

    The only thing I find questionable with your opinion is that toddlers also aren't self-aware or know what they have to lose, but yet I don't agree with killing or harming them. When does one become a "human" in your eyes?


    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    That explains why it is considered murder, but not why abortion is okay on one day and monstrous a few days later.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Well, I'm not surprised that you would have difficulty comprehending this distinction ...
    Hmm, Lateralus - I took it as him asking what makes 24 weeks different than 24 weeks and 1 day? I would understand it more clearly if, say, you were able to perform an abortion until the first heart beat, or the first [insert whatever significant event here].

  8. #38
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    The claims have not been refuted. Also: http://www.albertmohler.com/
    I don't understand what one has to do with the other.

  9. #39
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    The most important distinction between abortion and infanticide is that one act of violence is relatively hidden and the other is more visible. That has a much more profound impact on people's opinions than concerns about privacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I would understand it more clearly if, say, you were able to perform an abortion until the first heart beat, or the first [insert whatever significant event here].
    But, what is the logical connection between such events and personhood?
    They certainly have nothing to do with whether or not the fetus is human.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  10. #40
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Until the infant is able to live outside the mother's body, it's not considered a person.

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