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  1. #21
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Empathy.

    You are approaching this argument from the wrong direction. The reason viability is chosen over self-awareness or mental capacity is because this is about the mother's right. The mother only has the right to an abortion if the fetus cannot survive outside the womb.
    No, you're starting from the wrong direction. First, you must establish the rights of the parties involved (mother and fetus/baby) then you assess how those rights relate to one another.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  2. #22
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Empathy.
    How do you have empathy for a new born baby, but not for a baby that is even weaker and more defenseless?
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  3. #23
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    Post a link to back up this claim. Unless you're just being provocative for attention, which seems plausible.
    Susan J. Lee, Henry J. Peter Ralston, Eleanor A. Drey, John Colin Partridge, Mark A. Rosen: Fetal Pain: A Systematic Multidisciplinary Review of the Evidence. In: Journal of the American Medical Association. 294 (8) (2005), S. 947-954.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    No, you're starting from the wrong direction. First, you must establish the rights of the parties involved (mother and fetus/baby) then you assess how those rights relate to one another.
    Umm, that's what has been done. You are trying to argue something that has already been settled.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #25
    figsfiggyfigs
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    Well, there goes my dinner.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I don't know at what point a fetus is able to feel pain, but abortions are permitted before the 24th week, so, even if what you say is true, I don't think your point is even valid. From what I understand, it isn't until the 26th week that a fetus is capable of breathing, and the doctor killed breathing fetuses.
    The point of that information was to challenge your opinion on when it is permitted to abort a fetus. But your sole concern seems to be what is legal. What a boring topic.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    How do you have empathy for a new born baby, but not for a baby that is even weaker and more defenseless?
    People (outside of people like Nicodemus) have empathy for both. Allowing early-term abortions is a compromise, not a perfect solution because there is no perfect solution.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #28
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    The point of that information was to challenge your opinion on when it is permitted to abort a fetus. But your sole concern seems to be what is legal. What a boring topic.
    Not just legal, but what is factual. You only presented some of the facts, not all of them. If adding more information and context makes a topic boring, then I am guilty as charged.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #29
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Not just legal, but what is factual. [...] If adding more information and context makes a topic boring, then I am guilty as charged.
    It is boring if all you want to do with more information and context is write them down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    You only presented some of the facts, not all of them.
    Well, naturally.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    It is boring if all you want to do with more information and context is write them down.
    Dismissive yet again.

    Well, naturally.
    I don't know what your type is, and don't really care, but you seem like some of the self-described INTPs on INTPcentral. You're trying to play a role.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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