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  1. #11
    The Eighth Colour Octarine's Avatar
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    Wanting social change is not the same as wanting socialism.

    Arguments can be made for a radical reform of the banking system, corporation law, intellectual property law etc all without invoking socialism.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Architectonic View Post
    Wanting social change is not the same as wanting socialism.

    Arguments can be made for a radical reform of the banking system, corporation law, intellectual property law etc all without invoking socialism.
    It can be made, except people make it to sound like socialism (e.g. big government is taking your money!)

    Probably the strange example of this is the unemployment benefits, instead of giving money to those who can't get a job, why not use that money instead, to put people on jobs. Exactly like the CCC during the Great Depression. The federal government put people to work who couldn't get a job, not the federal government giving money to people who can't find a job. But this same concept... many people have a problem with it because "the government is going to get bigger. We must downsize government and put it into the hands of the states."

  3. #13
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Architectonic View Post
    Wanting social change is not the same as wanting socialism.

    Arguments can be made for a radical reform of the banking system, corporation law, intellectual property law etc all without invoking socialism.
    I agree with that.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeru View Post
    It can be made, except people make it to sound like socialism (e.g. big government is taking your money!)

    Probably the strange example of this is the unemployment benefits, instead of giving money to those who can't get a job, why not use that money instead, to put people on jobs. Exactly like the CCC during the Great Depression. The federal government put people to work who couldn't get a job, not the federal government giving money to people who can't find a job. But this same concept... many people have a problem with it because "the government is going to get bigger. We must downsize government and put it into the hands of the states."
    Or you know you could discover what socialism really is instead of repeating some bullshit.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Or you know you could discover what socialism really is instead of repeating some bullshit.
    I know what it is, there is a reason why I put "e.g."

    Which are examples of everything and everything I heard from others(which aren't all true) about what is deemed socialistic.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Or you know you could discover what socialism really is instead of repeating some bullshit.
    Time and time again I come accross entj's who claim they know what socialism "really" is. Why is that? Because you studied history and saw how socialist states were run? Is that it? You never take into account the fact that those states never actually were truly socialist states in the sense that Marx envisioned it. They were dictatorships flying the flag of socialism. Some were even imperialist states conning the people into thinking they were socialist.

    Here's an example of socialism at work: http://www.yesmagazine.org/issues/la...ing/cubas-cure

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/galle...ernationalnews

    And here's some propaganda by the american government to make entj's think socialism is evil, so they don't have to feel bad for not wanting to share.

    http://www.therealcuba.com/Page10.htm

  7. #17

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    And if you want to hear some real bullshit check out this link:

    http://www.therealcuba.com/MurderedbyChe.htm

    Che was an enfp. He envisioned what every enfp can envision. If you believe all that crazy propaganda you are a fool.

  8. #18
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by tayto View Post
    Time and time again I come accross entj's who claim they know what socialism "really" is. Why is that? Because you studied history and saw how socialist states were run? Is that it? You never take into account the fact that those states never actually were truly socialist states in the sense that Marx envisioned it. They were dictatorships flying the flag of socialism. Some were even imperialist states conning the people into thinking they were socialist.

    Here's an example of socialism at work: http://www.yesmagazine.org/issues/la...ing/cubas-cure

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/galle...ernationalnews

    And here's some propaganda by the american government to make entj's think socialism is evil, so they don't have to feel bad for not wanting to share.

    http://www.therealcuba.com/Page10.htm
    I approve of this post.

  9. #19
    The Eighth Colour Octarine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tayto View Post
    Time and time again I come accross entj's who claim they know what socialism "really" is. Why is that? Because you studied history and saw how socialist states were run? Is that it? You never take into account the fact that those states never actually were truly socialist states in the sense that Marx envisioned it. They were dictatorships flying the flag of socialism. Some were even imperialist states conning the people into thinking they were socialist.
    That's because it isn't physically possible to implement it as Marx envisioned it. There is more to politics than social justice, there is the whole organisational and information processing aspect. An aspect that is lacking in all practical applications of socialism.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Architectonic View Post
    That's because it isn't physically possible to implement it as Marx envisioned it. There is more to politics than social justice, there is the whole organisational and information processing aspect. An aspect that is lacking in all practical applications of socialism.
    Arguably any possible practical applications of capitalism too.

    Just out of a matter of interest, what are we talking about when you say "implement it as Marx envisioned it"? What has social justice got to do with it?

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