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  1. #81
    As Long As It Takes.... Redbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    Maybe, maybe not. That depends on where you live and who you know. Growing up (through high school, but also since then), I would have had zero clue on how to begin to look for a weapon were they not widely and readily available. Anyone in my high school would/has said the same. Why is that significant? I went to Columbine High School. The gunmen got their weapons from an older friend who bought them at a gun fair (taking advantage of the waiting period loophole). Could they have gotten guns illegally? I have no idea. I know, that, as a senior in the exact same town, I would be able to find out how to make a bomb online far easier than I would know where to start in looking for illegal gun sellers.

    Good point.

    So now there is an added issue of stealing or 'borrowing' a gun from someone. This happened last year in a local private school. Two teens stole a couple of guns and ammo from a friend's house (they belonged to the friend's dad...) and used it to kill a girl at school. They just wanted to know what it would be like to kill someone so they took her and shot her.

    It makes it seem a little futile to try and control access to firearms.

  2. #82
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    Canada has restrictions, but I am planning to buy a pump action shotgun to provide a backup line of defense. I realize it is unlikely I will ever need it, but if my home ever gets invaded by some homicidal maniac, it will be insurance.

  3. #83
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    I honestly believe that US "gun culture" is unhealthy. I've never really condoned private citizens owning firearms, but I had an experience that really drove it home for me.

    My father, purchased rifles for my 9 and 10 year old half-brothers, and allowed them to fire the guns on property and targets that he'd purchased. Something about this... disgusted and disturbed me. Even their mother confided to me in private that she was concerned about it. Exposing children to guns and letting them use them at such a young age seems totally wrong to me. I wanted to see him in prison for that, and I wished more than anything that there were laws that would put him there. It just drove home to me, how uncivilized we really are out here, that there are no laws to prevent such things in Texas.

    It also didn't help that my father brought his gun into the office, and walked around with it slung over his shoulder. That image also made me uncomfortable.

    I've known several unstable, paranoid people who own guns, and are adamant about gun rights. There are people who keep guns in their vehicles at all times. To be honest, as much as I distrust the government, I fear the people who want to "protect" us from the government even more. I don't think there are many reasonable people who want to own guns. In my experience, they all have fantasies of overthrowing our government if it becomes repressive (and their idea of repression is different from mine), or shooting an intruder to feel like a "man."

    I truly wish that something could be done about this. But I fear that it never will be. I can understand why it was different when people needed guns, to hunt and protect themselves from Indians, but those aren't the kind of people who own them now. Their motives are far less practical.

    There's a whole subculture of people who want to live out in the country, off the grid, and own a lot of guns, and send their kids to private religious schools... quite frankly, these people scare me, and I don't trust their motives at all.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    Looking at the stats in Australia, it seems there are some gains, though the homicide rate is mostly static. A lot of gun based crimes have gone down.
    We banned guns in 1996 due to our revulsion at a gun massacre. So the purpose of the ban was not to reduce gun based crime but to stop gun massacres.

    And based on this criteria the ban has been 100% successful, thank God.

    And the ban on guns was and is very popular here, and we see it as a national characteristic.

    We are of course flooded with USA popular culture here so we are a little amazed we keep our accent and our social values. But we are happy campers and happy allies of the USA.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Well, if you take away the part about different races, nations and cultures, then yes.

    Tell me, can you imagine watching French tv every day? We watch American tv all the time, we have all the big companies here in one way or another, we even copied the way the American corporations work and try to make our own little world take-overs with Nokia and so on.

    EDIT: By the way, what is the point of this? Are you saying I should not relate to the US? Take you guys off the pedestal? Not expect too much?
    Yes I just think the U.S. should be viewed realistically rather than through the lens of "oh they're like us because they are a democracy." I didn't realize that Finland was so similar to the U.S. ... I do think throwing together a bunch of people of different races, nations and cultures does make a difference...but it's not the primary difference in this case, the primary difference is our fierce adherence to having the right to bear arms so that the American Revolution won't happen again. The idea I suppose is that the government can't sneak up and take over if citizens are armed.

    It also allows people to live independently out in the sticks, which is actually something I highly approve of, being who I am and where I'm from. But that kind of gun ownership is wildly different than what is being discussed in this thread.

    Definitely take us off of a pedestal.

    I do watch a lot of European films, btw. I've seen so much English television and so many English, French, and Russian films, not to mention all the other countries I watch movies from.

    But I get what you're saying, you're absolutely bombarded with American television apparently, not by individual choice.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    It also didn't help that my father brought his gun into the office, and walked around with it slung over his shoulder. That image also made me uncomfortable.
    Oh, shit... He felt like he needs to send a message to the employees or something? Work hard or I'll shoot you.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I honestly believe that US "gun culture" is unhealthy. I've never really condoned private citizens owning firearms, but I had an experience that really drove it home for me.

    My father, purchased rifles for my 9 and 10 year old half-brothers, and allowed them to fire the guns on property and targets that he'd purchased. Something about this... disgusted and disturbed me. Even their mother confided to me in private that she was concerned about it. Exposing children to guns and letting them use them at such a young age seems totally wrong to me. I wanted to see him in prison for that, and I wished more than anything that there were laws that would put him there. It just drove home to me, how uncivilized we really are out here, that there are no laws to prevent such things in Texas.
    You wanted your father to go to prison for teaching your brothers to fire guns? Nearly every man (or so it seems) in the South teaches his son to hunt at the same age. My grandfather did the same, and I'm not obsessed with guns in the least. No one in my family is, actually, although my mother has guns in her house. My exes family had guns in their house, but only for hunting and self-defense. Most of my relatives have guns. But I don't consider even one of them "gun nuts."

    Owning guns and learning to safely use them as a child for sensible purposes does not a gun nut make, not by a long shot. It's certainly not something to be imprisoned for.



    It also didn't help that my father brought his gun into the office, and walked around with it slung over his shoulder. That image also made me uncomfortable.
    Ok. That's fucking crazy.

    I've known several unstable, paranoid people who own guns, and are adamant about gun rights. There are people who keep guns in their vehicles at all times. To be honest, as much as I distrust the government, I fear the people who want to "protect" us from the government even more. I don't think there are many reasonable people who want to own guns. In my experience, they all have fantasies of overthrowing our government if it becomes repressive (and their idea of repression is different from mine), or shooting an intruder to feel like a "man."
    Yeah I have a libertarian friend who is male, he's really nice for the most part, a pretty giving, idealistic person ... I wouldn't call him a bad or violent person at all, he's actually kind of a hippie...but he's insane. He's a paranoid libertarian gun nut. To a point that it sometimes gave me the creeps, although he was always nice.

    I truly wish that something could be done about this. But I fear that it never will be. I can understand why it was different when people needed guns, to hunt and protect themselves from Indians, but those aren't the kind of people who own them now. Their motives are far less practical.
    To protect themselves from Indians? *slams head on desk*

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Yes I just think the U.S. should be viewed realistically rather than through the lens of "oh they're like us because they are a democracy." I didn't realize that Finland was so similar to the U.S. ... I do think throwing together a bunch of people of different races, nations and cultures does make a difference...but it's not the primary difference in this case, the primary difference is our fierce adherence to having the right to bear arms so that the American Revolution won't happen again. The idea I suppose is that the government can't sneak up and take over if citizens are armed.
    I guess I can't really see it realistically in any case, since I'm not actually there, and have never even visited. The best I can figure it is through some Americans I've met, and then the media of course.

    How did the idea come into being that in a democracy it is possible to not trust the government to a certain degree? They are chosen by the people, after all.. Or are we talking about the chance that someone would overthrow the government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    It also allows people to live independently out in the sticks, which is actually something I highly approve of, being who I am and where I'm from. But that kind of gun ownership is wildly different than what is being discussed in this thread.
    I see no problem with that. Just as long as people don't buy uzis for hunting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    But I get what you're saying, you're absolutely bombarded with American television apparently, not by individual choice.
    It's not that I disapprove it, really. It is what I am used to since child.. It's just that because of this I expect to know a whole lot more about the US than just about any other country. I'd expect that even some sort of an American attitude can be seen through the media. You know, like the general feeling of the culture. Anyway, that's why you are on the pedestal, and under closer scrutiny.

  9. #89
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    Nolla sees a gun, Nolla wants to run... -teasing-
    One thing we can't take out of the larger equation are bad people with badass guns. Where there's a will for a bad guy to get a gun, there's a way. So, if you're ever staring down the barrel of a gun, your best chance of survival is to fight fire power with fire power.

    Thank goodness, often times less is more. Here's a prime example of using a gun less for fire power and more for the 'power of persuasion'. Let's say you're walking to your car in a dark parking lot, fumbling for the keys. One of the advantages of carrying a small gun, is in the fear factor itself and its power over ones perpetrater. If all goes well, the perpetrater will run away at the very sight of it. No bullets necessary. Effective, yes!

    Now let's tie all of this fear together shall we, by exploring my earlier statement about people being afraid of things they don't understand. For those afraid of guns, maybe it's a phobia to the sight of a gun, sensitivity to the sound, or a healthy fear of bullets. If you had a gun that wasn't loaded, would you still be afraid of it? If the answer is no, that suggests you're afraid of mishandling a loaded gun for obvious reasons. Easily conquered by some formal training.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    How did the idea come into being that in a democracy it is possible to not trust the government to a certain degree? They are chosen by the people, after all.. Or are we talking about the chance that someone would overthrow the government?
    Yeah, that's the part I can't figure out. We've got some real wackos here, I really don't know what's wrong with these people. All I can say is that people really do buy into media ideas, to the point of making them paranoid and unstable.

    I think people have libertarian fantasies and imagine they are real. Our country isn't repressive in the slightest, it's one of the freest countries in the world ... so fucking free that you're free to home school your children and charge people unethical amounts of money for health care.

    So I'm not sure what these people are on. I can only assume it's the same mindset that causes people to believe that the world will end in 2012 or that "the end times are near and Jesus is coming."

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