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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Well there's plenty to say about this, but I'm not touching it with a 50ft pole. But it's interesting to hear that Americans supposedly don't live up to European standards of being "civilized".
    I wasn't saying that. I wrote it "civilized" and not civilized because I didn't want to say sub-saharan africa is not civilized. I've been travelling enough to come to question the term, since it seems that no matter where you go (except maybe warzones), people are very civilized.

  2. #62
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    The sub-saharan Africa comparison was a bit apples and oranges, that's all.

    But that russia video was interesting - they mentioned a mental health screen. I wonder what that entails... (off to google...)

    Keeping with the international theme, I wonder if there is any comparisons to be made with countries with have a mental health screen for gun ownership?
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    I wasn't saying that. I wrote it "civilized" and not civilized because I didn't want to say sub-saharan africa is not civilized. I've been travelling enough to come to question the term, since it seems that no matter where you go (except maybe warzones), people are very civilized.
    Nevertheless your basic argument is here is that Americans are different than "Europeans", and somehow that's a negative. "Sure we got plenty of rifles here, but those Yanks are the real gun nuts." And if it's not guns, then it's something else. It gets rather tiresome really.

  4. #64
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    Always remember that your way is the best way. It can take you quite far in life.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    The sub-saharan Africa comparison was a bit apples and oranges, that's all.
    I don't see how. If you're going to make a generalized argument about how guns are bad and guns=death, Sub-Saharan Africa should be your perfect evidence. I have even heard the example of Somalia(an "NRA wet dream") brought up in discussions about gun control.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Nevertheless your basic argument is here is that Americans are different than "Europeans", and somehow that's a negative. "Sure we got plenty of rifles here, but those Yanks are the real gun nuts." And if it's not guns, then it's something else. It gets rather tiresome really.
    No, I was saying that I think Americans are Europeans, culturally. To me the amazement about some American issues is like my amazement of Germany tabooing anything concerning nazis, or France having major problems with their immigrants, or Spain and the Basque country situation.

    It seems like you want to make this some sort of issue. If there is an issue, it is because I tend to think that "Oh well, Russia is Russia". I expect more from Americans than Russians or Chinese, politically, and you are trying to say that is prejudice against Americans. If it is prejudice, it is against Russians and Chinese, but even then it is based on the difference in their system, it's not against the country as such.

    EDIT: And you know, if this board was Spanish, with minority from other countries, there would be exactly the same phenomenom, but it would seem to be against Spain. It is just people pointing out differences. Then someone compares the differences. No big deal. Besides, since the Americans have the majority here it's not like you are likely to "lose" any of these comparisons anyway.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    No, I was saying that I think Americans are Europeans, culturally. To me the amazement about some American issues is like my amazement of Germany tabooing anything concerning nazis, or France having major problems with their immigrants, or Spain and the Basque country situation.

    It seems like you want to make this some sort of issue. If there is an issue, it is because I tend to think that "Oh well, Russia is Russia". I expect more from Americans than Russians or Chinese, politically, and you are trying to say that is prejudice against Americans. If it is prejudice, it is against Russians and Chinese, but even then it is based on the difference in their system, it's not against the country as such.
    Yeah I was going to say this sounds more like prejudice against Russians and the Chinese...I disapprove of all of this, btw...you're amazed that French have problems with their immigrants?

    You're amazed that people are people?

    Are Russians and Chinese a different species?

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    No, I was saying that I think Americans are Europeans, culturally.
    I do agree with you. Much of what Americans hold dear, including the notion of an armed citizenry, have roots in European history and culture. Although in America it developed into a more individualistic thing, wheras in Europe it had more communitarian strains. This is one marked difference between America and say Switzerland, which has a large number of gun ownership.

    It seems like you want to make this some sort of issue.
    I find these Europe vs America piss contests quite tiresome to be honest, and this comes up in so many issues discussed here.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Are Russians and Chinese a different species?
    The Chinese are a different civilization. And although they don't like me saying so, the Russians are part of Western civilization. Russians are, after all, Orthodox Christians.

    The USA of course leads Western civilization, so all Westerners have a stake in USA history, psychology and present day politics.

    Frankly I think the USA should relax and start acting like the confident leader of Western civilization.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Yeah I was going to say this sounds more like prejudice against Russians and the Chinese...I disapprove of all of this, btw...you're amazed that French have problems with their immigrants?
    Well, I can be amazed can I? If things are so bad people riot on the streets burning cars, there obviously is something wrong with the system. It's not like this is only about other countries, I actually disagree with quite a lot of what is going on in my own country. It just isn't the kind of thing that would be discussed much here, since I don't think people know that much about what is going on in Finland. So, it will seem to you like I'm all the time like "Oh my gaawd, what the hell is wrong with those people over there!" while actually I am pretty critical of politics in general.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Are Russians and Chinese a different species?
    No, but I can't really say that I understand their system of governing deeply enough to really be amazed about anything they do. Basically, when any country can be said to be truly a democracy, then I expect it to behave in somewhat similar way to Americans and Europeans.

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