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  1. #51
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Sure, it is ok to have the kind of society the people want. If they want guns, then they will have them. My main point is that the logic behind it, that guns make you safer, is bull. I actually don't even believe that most people want guns in order to defend themselves. They want them because, hey, it is pretty fun shooting them. And there's nothing wrong with that as long as they recognize that there are consequences.
    Recognizing consequences can be a difficult task for a number of scenarios

  2. #52
    Senor Membrane
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    "More guns = More corpses" seems pretty straightforward.

    I don't mean to sound too preachy here, I really do think that living in a democracy is a schizophrenic business and in a way there is nothing to do about it, since this is how it should work. So, I'm not really saying anything about how it should be. It should be exactly like it is, if the people are behind it.

  3. #53
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    I seriously wonder if the real argument going on here is about guns or just another excuse to knock on Americans.
    I hope not. However, it is a fine line - American culture is intricately tied up in its gun legislation. To not discuss the culture is to miss the underlying causes...

    Quote Originally Posted by Qlippoth View Post
    It's not that so much, but that it goes against an ideal of self-reliance. And this is where we start talking about me, and not just Nebraskans. No, I don't trust police anymore than I trust a random guy on the street when my personal concerns are involved.
    Yes, autonomy does seem to be a central American value, if not the most central value. But how does this work when it comes to demanding autonomy for all regardless of whether they can be trusted with it? I'm sure most people don't want unreliable people to own and use guns (eg. with mental health issues, poor eyesight, drug problems, lacking sufficient maturity or mental capacity), yet many fight any additional restrictions regarding guns. Surely adding a few tests and extra steps to the licensing process can't be something reasonable people are opposed to.
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    It's hard to be afraid when information is so widely available

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law...tes_(by_state)

    So, no crazy people can own them, nobody with a history of violence can own them, felons can't own them, and handguns are a bitch to own in Chicago.
    Thanks for the link. Texas handgun control law is lenient. We don't need a permit to drive around with concealed guns.


  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    There might be a little tinge of "well in my country" but I think things are going along just fine...

    Most the conversation has been gun related and the conversation has morphed into showing international views on the subject. It wasn't exactly what I was expecting with the thread but that's ok, people are keeping their cool about it.
    Yeah but it's just kinda interesting how America is always the center of these international discussions, as opposed to say Sub-Saharan Africa were you can purchase an AK-47 for less than $50, and constant warfare.

    Heck just look at the official emblem for the nation of Mozambique:


    And concerning Europeans, I guess they've never been to Russia(or are they still considered Asia?).
    [youtube="wMzU3lJnY5E"]Risisng gun ownership in Russia[/youtube]

    And a look into your typical Russian gunstore:
    [youtube="jd4mXO4WEog"]Guns in Russia part 2[/youtube]
    ^^this closely resembles the one I visited. Of course it's well known(at least then) the black market selling former Soviet weaponry.

  6. #56
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Well it started as a discussion about the US and then some foreigners jumped in and contributed their perspective/experience...Finnland, Germany and New Zealand. That's all.
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  7. #57
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Smile Patricide, Fratricide and Paranoia

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    Discuss away, please play nice.
    The USA began with a violent, bourgeois revolution against lawful authority and followed up with one of the bloodiest civil wars in history.

    On the psychological level the revolution was a symbolic act of patricide, and the civil war was a symbolic act of fratricide.

    So the USA must forever live with the guilt of patricide and fratricide. And this guilt is repressed and denied and so expresses itself in paranoia.

    In part, paranoia is the unreasonable fear of attack. And considering that no country can invade the USA and the USA spends more on the military than the rest of the world combined, the fear of invasion and attack is pure paranoia.

    And USA paranoia only makes sense in the unconscious fear of retribution for patricide and fratricide.

    Just consider, the citizens of the USA are armed to the teeth, not against invasion but against each other. And in particular they are armed against their own democratically elected government.

    However there is another side to paranoia and that is that paranoia is psychological preparation to attack.

    And although the USA presents a smiling face, they carry a very big stick.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Yeah but it's just kinda interesting how America is always the center of these international discussions, as opposed to say Sub-Saharan Africa were you can purchase an AK-47 for less than $50, and constant warfare.
    I think it is really not about slapping US just because there's a chance to do so. What good would that do? "We have a more moral government than you!!" I think that's boring. What I think it is about mostly is that sub-saharan africa isn't something europeans can relate with. So, if I relate with the states and regard the people quite similar to me and "civilized", and usually suppose that things are pretty much the same there as here, it is a bit shocking whenever I hear about some crazy stuff (from my perspective) that's going on there. You know what I mean? Even if Russia is just next door to me and I've been there, I relate more with US. So, there's always the kind of a shock, like when I watched "Sicko" and was like "What! This could happen here if we aren't careful".

  9. #59
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    I relate more with US. So, there's always the kind of a shock, like when I watched "Sicko" and was like "What! This could happen here if we aren't careful".
    On that same vein, I think a great deal of Americans are fearful of losing something they feel entitled to. I highly doubt a significant number of Americans would approve of such blatant infringements upon their rights. I don't generally think the fear is justified, having a constitution that enables lawful ownership of weaponry is more than enough for me.

    Still, it remains a major issue (or at least, a major talking point) in politics, when it should be considered a minor issue.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    I think it is really not about slapping US just because there's a chance to do so. What good would that do? "We have a more moral government than you!!" I think that's boring. What I think it is about mostly is that sub-saharan africa isn't something europeans can relate with. So, if I relate with the states and regard the people quite similar to me and "civilized", and usually suppose that things are pretty much the same there as here, it is a bit shocking whenever I hear about some crazy stuff (from my perspective) that's going on there. You know what I mean? Even if Russia is just next door to me and I've been there, I relate more with US. So, there's always the kind of a shock, like when I watched "Sicko" and was like "What! This could happen here if we aren't careful".
    Well there's plenty to say about this, but I'm not touching it with a 50ft pole. But it's interesting to hear that Americans supposedly don't live up to European standards of being "civilized".

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