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  1. #541
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Let's see if we still have the 2nd Amendment in 50 years.
    If you are still alive then, does that prove that you are immortal?

  2. #542
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Lol.

    Rebels emply Guerilla warfare, and would hide within the populace rendering your assumption of a large organized anti gov't force irrelevant.
    If they want to overthrow the government, they would have to have a large, organized force. Otherwise, they would just be terrorists, causing random destruction, but unable to achieve any real goals unless the government gave into their demands. And the people would probably be on the government's side, with all the chaos and destruction these people would cause.
    Let's see if we still have the 2nd Amendment in 50 years.

    I'll let our future do the rest of the talking for me.
    50 years? Probably so. 150 years? I'm not so sure.

    It would be much easier to convince the majority of people that guns are bad, over several generations (giving time for passed-down traditions/sentiments to be watered down), and THEN ban guns. So no, it won't happen your lifetime. That doesn't mean it won't happen in your great-grandchildren's lifetime, though. In fact, I like to think that's where we're headed. It's quite possible that the plans are already in motion, behind the scenes.

    If we start working on it now, maybe we can have guns banned by 2162.

  3. #543

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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    If they thought the Second Amendment wouldn't be important in 50 years, they could have instituted the provision in a more easily repealed fashion.

    It's much easier to repeal a law than it is to rewrite an amendment.

    Why make it the second amendment then if its so unimportant.

    The only more important in the eyes of the founders than the right to defend oneself, was the right to express one's opinions (especially if they happen to oppose the sitting government).
    The right to defend one's self was obviously important to the founding fathers. But the Constitution was written in a time of muskets, a time when even the highest escalation of armed conflict caused limited damage. I don't believe that the founding fathers could have foreseen the technological advances we've made in weaponry. I think it would have been inconceivable that the citizenry could be so much better armed than in their time, and that at the same time the chasm between the class of weaponry possessed by the citizenry and the government could be so disparate. If they had, I'm not at all sure that the second amendment would have been written the same way.

    I'm a pro-gun person, and was even a member of the NRA at one time. But the issue is thornier than it first appears. The ideals of the second amendment remain as noble and relevant today as they ever were. But the means by which those ideals would be defended are wildly different and more dangerous. This means that the tension between liberty and security is a much different dynamic now than it was then. I that it's an ongoing open question whether the ideals of the second amendment (liberty) are worth the danger inherent in an armed populace today (security). For now I still say that it is, but I can see a day when I won't.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

    Johari
    /Nohari

  4. #544
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    The right to defend one's self was obviously important to the founding fathers. But the Constitution was written in a time of muskets, a time when even the highest escalation of armed conflict caused limited damage. I don't believe that the founding fathers could have foreseen the technological advances we've made in weaponry. I think it would have been inconceivable that the citizenry could be so much better armed than in their time, and that at the same time the chasm between the class of weaponry possessed by the citizenry and the government could be so disparate. If they had, I'm not at all sure that the second amendment would have been written the same way.
    This is a horrible argument. Armed conflict has always been able to cause catastrophic, civilization-ending destruction. To think that men armed with muskets and cannons could not cause serious damage is the result of a delusion or ignorance. Every year, humans get better and better at using energy for whatever they want. Some of them move bullets, some of them split atoms, but all of it can be quantified. We just have to accept that people will always innovate new and creative uses for whatever they happen to discover in their environments.

  5. #545

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    This is a horrible argument. Armed conflict has always been able to cause catastrophic, civilization-ending destruction. To think that men armed with muskets and cannons could not cause serious damage is the result of a delusion or ignorance. Every year, humans get better and better at using energy for whatever they want. Some of them move bullets, some of them split atoms, but all of it can be quantified. We just have to accept that people will always innovate new and creative uses for whatever they happen to discover in their environments.
    Actually, it's an excellent argument. The price of liberty is a real price, it's not just a hokey phrase. If a man told you that he was going to kill your family unless you gave him one dollar, would you give it to him? If he said he was going to kill your family unless you gave him $1 million, is your answer the same? The point is that all our values have a price. And the price of the freedom provided by the second amendment is much dearer today in terms of casualties than it was when the Constitution was written. I've said that I still think it's worth that price. I am simply leaving open the possibility that one day it won't be.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

    Johari
    /Nohari

  6. #546
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    Actually, it's an excellent argument. The price of liberty is a real price, it's not just a hokey phrase. If a man told you that he was going to kill your family unless you gave him one dollar, would you give it to him? If he said he was going to kill your family unless you gave him $1 million, is your answer the same? The point is that all our values have a price. And the price of the freedom provided by the second amendment is much dearer today in terms of casualties than it was when the Constitution was written. I've said that I still think it's worth that price. I am simply leaving open the possibility that one day it won't be.
    Are you saying that more people will die as a result of gun ownership? This is probably true, but we could compare the frequency of gun-related deaths in the late 18th century to the frequency of gun-related deaths today, and determine whether the death rate is higher or lower today. This could be an enlightening process. Given changes in population size, guns per capita, deaths per capita, one could easily determine whether or not we're paying a higher price.

  7. #547
    shadow boxer strawberries's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    If you think I'm dumb enough to mention any of this somewhere where it could come back to bite me, then the mistake is yours.

    I'm more savvy than you give me credit for my dear girl.

    I wouldn't have made it "this" far if speed bumps like that were tripping me up.


    dear boy, on this site you've posted photographs of yourself and your boss' name: congressman ander crenshaw it wouldn't be hard to send rep. crenshaw some information on his green intern's bully boy online persona. use your loaf.

    now intern, get back to where interns belong: shackled to the photocopier.

  8. #548
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    Have at it hoss.

    I mentioned some personal issues in a recent random thought post, that somewhat explain some of the issues I've been going through as of late.

    I wouldn't have posted if I wasn't willing to accept the consequences.

    My fate is my own, and I won't be spoken down to dearie.

  9. #549

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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Have at it hoss.
    She's not threatening you, she's trying to help you, cowboy.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

    Johari
    /Nohari

  10. #550
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    "Hoss is just an expression meaning guy, dude, man, homey. It's just the western or country version of it. It comes from "horse" and it usually would mean a large man but not always. If the person using this expression isn't a cowboy or a country boy, or girl, he's either making fun of country people or he's a poser."

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