User Tag List

First 394748495051 Last

Results 481 to 490 of 561

  1. #481
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    yupp
    Posts
    29,776

    Default

    that was not my point. my point was that banning guns is not going to keep them out of the hands of criminals.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  2. #482
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    2,390

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    that was not my point. my point was that banning guns is not going to keep them out of the hands of criminals.
    However, can it limit the impact of gang related crimes etc. especially amongst young people who are 'criminals in training'?

    Sure serious criminals and nutters will always get guns from somewhere. Can you minimise the negative impact on society by increasing gun controls?

  3. #483
    Oberon
    Guest

    Default

    Nicodemus merely wants to establish a state monopoly on the legitimate use of physical force... deligitimizing small arms in the hands of the public is a necessary step toward that goal.

    The monopoly on the legitimate use of physical force is a political concept formalized by the sociologist Max Weber, in his 1918 speech Politik als Beruf (Politics as a Vocation).

    Weber argued that the state cannot be characterized by its ends, since there are very few goals which no state would ever seek to achieve, and no particular task which is both exclusive to the state, and also unique to the state.

    He concluded therefore that the state must be characterized by the means which it, and only it, has at its disposal: "a state is a human community that (successfully) claims the monopoly of the legitimate use of physical force within a given territory".


    -- from the Monopoly on the Legitimate Use of Physical Force

  4. #484
    Oberon
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    However, can it limit the impact of gang related crimes etc. especially amongst young people who are 'criminals in training'?

    Sure serious criminals and nutters will always get guns from somewhere. Can you minimise the negative impact on society by increasing gun controls?
    As prplchknz has observed, Chicago has attempted to do exactly that, with no appreciable positive results to show for it.

  5. #485
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    9,128

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    that was not my point. my point was that banning guns is not going to keep them out of the hands of criminals.
    I know what your point was. But the fact that criminals still have guns does not say that this particular kind of law is inherently unenforceable, but simply that it is not enforced properly; which, of course, is difficult when you try to be a sand-free oasis in the desert.

  6. #486
    Oberon
    Guest

    Default

    I will observe that we cannot successfully keep either weapons or drugs out of our prisons. I do not know what degree of enforcement would suffice to do this for the country at large, but it would appear that it's some degree greater than that of a prison.

  7. #487
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    9,128

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    I will observe that we cannot successfully keep either weapons or drugs out of our prisons. I do not know what degree of enforcement would suffice to do this for the country at large, but it would appear that it's some degree greater than that of a prison.
    Are you trying to say that, therefore, drugs and weapons should be legal in prisons?

  8. #488
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Posts
    14,031

    Default

    Are you saying we should go to a system where those with size and training should be able to lord these qualities over the defenseless masses?

    But what about the police people say?

    They'll arrive just in time to line your pilfered corpse with chalk.

    Don't worry about it Ob...

    He has a tendency to not address the best parts of the opposing argument because he lacks the skills to do so.

  9. #489
    Oberon
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Are you trying to say that, therefore, drugs and weapons should be legal in prisons?
    No. I'm trying to differentiate for our group whether you actually would prefer that the US be free of small arms in the hands of citizens, or whether you are actually merely trying to establish the legitimacy of a Weberian state in the discussion.

    Personally, I think you should keep the application of your political theories within the borders occupied by your Prussian forebears.

  10. #490
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    9,128

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    No.
    Yet that is what it boils down to when we apply it to the current string of arguments.

    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    I'm trying to differentiate for our group whether you actually would prefer that the US be free of small arms in the hands of citizens, or whether you are actually merely trying to establish the legitimacy of a Weberian state in the discussion.
    I would prefer the US to be free of gun deaths. I think to bar ordinary people from possessing guns is an effective way to achieve that goal. As a result, the state would hold the monopoly on gun power; with a few exceptions, it already holds the monopoly on the legitimate use of physical force.

    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Personally, I think you should keep the application of your political theories within the borders occupied by your Prussian forebears.
    Why?

Similar Threads

  1. Teachers stage fake gun attack on kids
    By digesthisickness in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 12-29-2009, 04:35 PM
  2. I've got issues...
    By The Ü™ in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-24-2007, 10:28 PM
  3. Iraq-Bound Soldier Hires Hitman To Shoot Him
    By heart in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 07-24-2007, 07:34 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO