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  1. #361
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    It will not erode any conviction, but it could very well be interesting.
    I know it won't erode any conviction, but hopefully it could clear this whole Europe vs America dimension to the discussion, which I think does more to cloud the more basic issues involving gun ownership.

    Here's a list of the top 10 countries with the largest numbers of gun ownerships:

    1 United States
    2 Yemen
    3 Switzerland
    4 Iraq
    5 Serbia
    6 France
    7 Finland
    8 Greece

    9 Canada
    10 Sweden

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._gun_ownership

    This is based off the Small Arms Survey 2007, and at the link they explain what the listing and numbers entail exactly. Yet out of the top 10, 6 are European countries and so are #11 and 12(Austria and Germany). So while there certainly is a difference in numbers between America and the Europeans countries, it seems on a global scale Europeans are not that far behind.

  2. #362
    Sniffles
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    Here's another take on this:
    Europeans own a total of 67 million registered guns, according to a new survey, which argues that some nations have developed a gun culture that bears comparison with the United States.

    The report highlights recent incidents of mass shootings and political assassinations, raising questions about the increasing availability of firearms in Europe and their use.

    "Contrary to the common assumption that Europeans are virtually unarmed, an estimated 84 million firearms are legally held in the 15 member states of the EU. Of these, 80 per cent - 67 million guns - are in civilian hands," the report states. But the Small Arms Survey also concludes that the gun culture varies enormously between European nations, and does not pinpoint any overall trend in behaviour in the EU....

    ...But in some EU countries, domestic gun ownership is surprisingly high. According to Aaron Karp, co-author of the report: "Citizens of most European countries are more heavily armed than they realise, with an average of 17.4 guns per 100 people in the 15 EU countries alone." While that falls a long way behind the US, which is "fast approaching a statistical level of one gun per person", Germans are buying almost as many new firearms per capita as Americans.

    Finland, with its strong hunting tradition, has the most legally registered guns in the EU at 39 per 100 people, the UK has 10 - one third of the German and French figures - and the Netherlands has two. Gun laws are tightest in the UK, the Netherlands and Poland, while France has more legal handguns than the Czech Republic, Denmark, Poland, England, Wales and Scotland combined.

    Mr Karp said the assumption there is no overlap between European and American gun culture is misleading. "We have been acting as if this was a comparison between Mars and Venus, but that does not always hold. Many - but not all - countries of Europe have a strong gun culture," he said. He also highlighted the convergence between US and European problems in controlling illegal firearms - thought to exceed those that are registered - and of armed crime.

    The report, compiled by an independent research project funded by 12 governments, stresses the diversity of different national law but points out that Germany and France do not have a tradition of tight regulation of firearms. Registration of new guns was only made compulsory in Germany in 1972 and in France in 1995."
    The figures which show Europe's gun culture rivals US

    It seems they're referencing to the Small Arms Survey of 2003.

  3. #363

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    I tend to think that when Americans talk about Europe they actually mean Britain and perhaps what Britain thinks of as France (but isnt).

  4. #364
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I tend to think that when Americans talk about Europe they actually mean Britain and perhaps what Britain thinks of as France (but isnt).
    Yeah it's always difficult to understand what's meant by "Europe" in such contexts, which is why I find it less than helpful. Peter Baldwin recently wrote a book titled The Narcissism of Minor Differences: How America and Europe are Alike which helps sheds some light on this larger issue. The differences often are more about degree than kind.

  5. #365
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    This might be true. I try to stay away from generalizing a continent. I'm not well traveled and I'd say I'm most familiar with England by way of media.

  6. #366

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlippoth View Post
    This might be true. I try to stay away from generalizing a continent. I'm not well traveled and I'd say I'm most familiar with England by way of media.
    The English are fiscal conservatives and liberal in all other respects, so its kind of the society which the libertarian party in the US would like to create.

    I expect we'll see the clusterf**k that it turns out to be unfold over the next few years, it doesnt do to have an economy which is so dependent on the city for jobs and money, especially with wage inflation as crazy as what it is and nations like China willing to mess with you by completely deregulating their financial sectors to encourage capital flight.

    Germany is demonstrating just how beneficial a mixed economy is, and I'm not just talking about state and private industry and services, a properly mixed economy of manufacturing, production and exports, not "thin air" and a service sector for the bankers.

  7. #367
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    The United States is already much more fiscally conservative than England, though England may seem fiscally conservative to other European countries.

  8. #368
    Junior Member CleanCuteNFP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    The United States is already much more fiscally conservative than England, though England may seem fiscally conservative to other European countries.
    Dang Marmie, do you live on here? How much are they charging you rent?

  9. #369
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    Don't you have something to attend to IRL, ESFP? Perhaps marrying a person you just met or throwing ramen bowls on the floor?

  10. #370
    Junior Member CleanCuteNFP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Don't you have something to attend to IRL, ESFP? Perhaps marrying a person you just met or throwing ramen bowls on the floor?
    Ouch, aren't you the one that told me to post more?

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