User Tag List

First 26343536373846 Last

Results 351 to 360 of 561

  1. #351
    meh Salomé's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,540

    Default

    ^LOL.
    Wow. Another gun thread. How exciting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  2. #352
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Posts
    14,031

    Default

    And you still don't really justify why guns are your basic answer to government woes, considering violence -- while sometimes necessary -- always comes with cost and might not be the most suitable answer.
    Revolution is a last resort.

    Diplomacy 99 times out of 100.

    But if that 1 out of 100 situation comes along I'd sure be happy I kept my full 2nd amendment rights as opposed to voting them away on the road to some sort of Orwellian Dystopia.

    Guns are kind of like condoms...

    I'd rather have em and not need em, than need em and not have em.

  3. #353
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    8,828

    Default

    I can understand why Americans think guns are necessary, but I don't think it says anything good about our culture.

    Let's start with the American Revolution. What basically happened, was that we got upset that the British wanted us to pay taxes for our own defense, and started enforcing trade laws that were already on the books in order to make money and prevent smuggling (after a long period of basically letting us do whatever we wanted and letting a culture of self-sufficiency develop). They tried to change the laws several times in order to appease us, but we would have none of it, and just kept crying for revolution. The way we treated British loyalists was abominable, and the British forces here spent a lot of their resources trying to protect loyalist civilians from angry, frenzied revolutionaries who would kill them without mercy, rather than win the war.

    The majority of our founding fathers were wealthy men (some of them smugglers), who didn't want Britain cutting into their fortunes. So they created these great propaganda machines to turn the subjects against Britain, and basically brainwashed everyone into believing that they were being "oppressed" by having to pay taxes. The argument was that we weren't represented sufficiently in the British parliament, but the truth was that Britain was using their military to protect us... why shouldn't we pay anything for our own defense?

    America was founded on blood, greed, and hatred, not freedom. Freedom was just the propaganda used to appeal to a sense of self-sufficiency that has proved to be our undoing time and time again. It always has been.

    It's a cycle we have yet to break... our leaders turn us against whoever the enemy of the day is, by telling us that they threaten our "freedom," and we get worked up into a rage that helps them justify a war. No logic involved whatsoever. Never mind that they themselves often bury those freedoms under mountains of "security" and "necessity," and "patriotism," it's still "freedom," and the excuse we're told is that it's "not free."

    So, we've lived up to our history quite well. We're an impulsive, greedy, shallow people with a myopic perspective, who only see what's right in front of us. We never try to look at things from another's viewpoint, and we don't look beyond the surface. That's why we're so easily manipulated. We think having a bunch of guns means we have freedom, never mind that the last time someone attempted a rebellion, they were put in their place by a superior armed force.

    We are pathetically shallow, and don't see that our concept of "freedom" is so limited, that it only really includes a bunch of historical symbols from what is essentially an idealized history, and that we're too quick to defend it without understanding it.

    Americans, at their core, can be summed up very simply. On the surface, we have a shallow veneer of idealized 18th century Enlightenment and English values, and in many ways we do resemble those old-fashioned, jingoistic Englishmen at the height of their Empire. Beneath the surface, we're mostly just traditionalist, hatefully competitive, myopic, shallow, and self-centered. We don't see the need for social programs, social structure, or any kind of leadership. We're just rebels who don't even understand that what we're rebelling against is sanity, experience, and logic.

    We also don't seem to understand that despite what we're told every day, our lives are still controlled by those above us, and that we have very little power, just like in EVERY nation that's ever existed. We're simply placated with the veneer of freedom and equality that we're given, because we're too "patriotic" and "traditional" in our interpretations to look past it and see what we really are, for the most part. We cling tightly to the myopic and badly outdated points of view that we've been told to stick with, and refuse to look at ourselves as others see us. We don't WANT to look, because we're afraid we'd realize that we're not just this great, perfect, free society that we've boasted about for so long, this shining beacon of perfection that the rest of the world should follow, and that we might have to swallow a little of our pride.

    I used to believe the history books, I used to think that somehow, our values must be the right ones... but I've seen through it now.

    THAT, my friend, is American values and the American mindset in a nutshell. Hehe. And now, I'm going to excuse myself from this thread.

  4. #354
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    6,946

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I can understand why Americans think guns are necessary, but I don't think it says anything good about our culture.

    Let's start with the American Revolution. What basically happened, was that we got upset that the British wanted us to pay taxes for our own defense, and started enforcing trade laws that were already on the books in order to make money and prevent smuggling (after a long period of basically letting us do whatever we wanted and letting a culture of self-sufficiency develop). They tried to change the laws several times in order to appease us, but we would have none of it, and just kept crying for revolution. The way we treated British loyalists was abominable, and the British forces here spent a lot of their resources trying to protect loyalist civilians from angry, frenzied revolutionaries who would kill them without mercy, rather than win the war.

    The majority of our founding fathers were wealthy men (some of them smugglers), who didn't want Britain cutting into their fortunes. So they created these great propaganda machines to turn the subjects against Britain, and basically brainwashed everyone into believing that they were being "oppressed" by having to pay taxes. The argument was that we weren't represented sufficiently in the British parliament, but the truth was that Britain was using their military to protect us... why shouldn't we pay anything for our own defense?

    America was founded on blood, greed, and hatred, not freedom. Freedom was just the propaganda used to appeal to a sense of self-sufficiency that has proved to be our undoing time and time again. It always has been.

    It's a cycle we have yet to break... our leaders turn us against whoever the enemy of the day is, by telling us that they threaten our "freedom," and we get worked up into a rage that helps them justify a war. No logic involved whatsoever. Never mind that they themselves often bury those freedoms under mountains of "security" and "necessity," and "patriotism," it's still "freedom," and the excuse we're told is that it's "not free."

    So, we've lived up to our history quite well. We're an impulsive, greedy, shallow people with a myopic perspective, who only see what's right in front of us. We never try to look at things from another's viewpoint, and we don't look beyond the surface. That's why we're so easily manipulated. We think having a bunch of guns means we have freedom, never mind that the last time someone attempted a rebellion, they were put in their place by a superior armed force.

    We are pathetically shallow, and don't see that our concept of "freedom" is so limited, that it only really includes a bunch of historical symbols from what is essentially an idealized history, and that we're too quick to defend it without understanding it.

    Americans, at their core, can be summed up very simply. On the surface, we have a shallow veneer of idealized 18th century Enlightenment and English values, and in many ways we do resemble those old-fashioned, jingoistic Englishmen at the height of their Empire. Beneath the surface, we're mostly just traditionalist, hatefully competitive, myopic, shallow, and self-centered. We don't see the need for social programs, social structure, or any kind of leadership. We're just rebels who don't even understand that what we're rebelling against is sanity, experience, and logic.

    We also don't seem to understand that despite what we're told every day, our lives are still controlled by those above us, and that we have very little power, just like in EVERY nation that's ever existed. We're simply placated with the veneer of freedom and equality that we're given, because we're too "patriotic" and "traditional" in our interpretations to look past it and see what we really are, for the most part. We cling tightly to the myopic and badly outdated points of view that we've been told to stick with, and refuse to look at ourselves as others see us. We don't WANT to look, because we're afraid we'd realize that we're not just this great, perfect, free society that we've boasted about for so long, this shining beacon of perfection that the rest of the world should follow, and that we might have to swallow a little of our pride.

    I used to believe the history books, I used to think that somehow, our values must be the right ones... but I've seen through it now.

    THAT, my friend, is American values and the American mindset in a nutshell. Hehe. And now, I'm going to excuse myself from this thread.
    I feel sorry for you.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  5. #355
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    9,129

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I feel sorry for you.
    Why?

  6. #356
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    6,946

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Why?
    That entire post sounds like a gigantic slice of self-loathing, writ nation-state large. I do NOT believe in "America: love it or leave it," but I cannot imagine why Athenian would stay in a place with a culture he finds so alienating. I would leave in a heartbeat if I saw my home country as such an awful place. It isn't, of course. I've traveled a lot and have always been happy to return home, but the USA is such an excellent place. I also feel positively about many of the aspects of American culture Athenian seems to despise. To me, our biggest problem as a country is that we so often fail to live up to our ideals, which I find to be among the noblest in society. Athenian seems to think those ideals ARE the problem. That makes me sad.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  7. #357
    Sniffles
    Guest

    Default

    I'll abstain from responding to Athenian's post, unless the issue gets pushed further.

    As for myself, I was actually pondering whether to give a rough historical summary of Europe's own gun culture, including discussing the possibility that much of it was exported to America after WWII. Also how the stereotypical image of America's gun culture is of relative recent invention, in spite of the 2nd Ammendment(which perhaps should be mentioned was a result of a political comprimise). Anyone game?

  8. #358
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    9,129

    Default

    It will not erode any conviction, but it could very well be interesting.

  9. #359
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    9,483

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    I'll abstain from responding to Athenian's post, unless the issue gets pushed further.

    As for myself, I was actually pondering whether to give a rough historical summary of Europe's own gun culture, including discussing the possibility that much of it was exported to America after WWII. Also how the stereotypical image of America's gun culture is of relative recent invention, in spite of the 2nd Ammendment(which perhaps should be mentioned was a result of a political comprimise). Anyone game?
    I'd love to hear it.

  10. #360
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    2,739

    Default

    After watching SLC Punk and reading the posts in this thread, I must say that truth is much better than fiction. The angst here against what I have come to accept as human nature is genuine. It isn't even comical anymore, it's almost depressing.

    Greed this, shallow that, paranoia here, and tyranny over there. These are all silly caricatures of everyday life. It reeks of spoiled entitlement. Because humans don't operate exactly as our ideals claim they should, everything has to be terrible. There can be no alternative perspectives and no rational interpretations for the actions we perceive to be deplorable.

Similar Threads

  1. Teachers stage fake gun attack on kids
    By digesthisickness in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 12-29-2009, 04:35 PM
  2. I've got issues...
    By The Ü™ in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-24-2007, 10:28 PM
  3. Iraq-Bound Soldier Hires Hitman To Shoot Him
    By heart in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 07-24-2007, 07:34 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO