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  1. #311
    Senor Membrane
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    Yeah, I can imagine being from countryside. The country really doesn't matter, I think. Countryside is countryside and there will be uses for weapons. But to take them to the suburbs is beyond my imagination. You don't have wild animals there, you have police close by, you have electricity for alarms and such. I don't see why you need to take guns there. It seems like some remnant of the past that just shouldn't be there.

  2. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    I'm beginning to see that this is much less of a political/cultural/national issue, and more of a clash of rigid ideals, unshakeable with words or an outsider's perspective. You've drawn a line in the sand to mark the value of human life, just as every other tribe of people has, and if you can live up to that, then I will admire you. In any case, I can see this that discussion has reached an acceptable conclusion.
    Dear god, you're smarter than me.

  3. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I've spent YEARS of my life imagining being a Western European. As an NF, it's exceptionally easy and boring - you think people should be nice and cooperate and get along and shouldn't need guns because people should be nice and cooperative and get along.
    Hmm... If being a European is about "getting along", then what would you say is equivalent to Americans?

  4. #314
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    And why are you trying to insult me all the time?

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    Because you're insulting America without trying to legitimately understand it.

  6. #316
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    And I would have the same reaction if you were insulting Russia or France.

  7. #317
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    I'm not trying to insult America. To me it doesn't matter which country it is about, it is the guns that I am against...

  8. #318
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    *sigh* I liked lowtech's political explanaions, they made a lot of sense. I really don't think actually realities of home defense are the actual reasons for the existence of guns in the U.S. and I think the average USian is being misrepresented here. We're not a monoculture, and we're definitely not androids with the exact same programming. I'd say there are people who are gun enthusiasts, there are people who are anti-gun, and there's the middle guy who doesn't think about it much but knows that if you live in a dangerous neighborhood you should see about getting a gun.

    This isn't about justifying ourselves to the rest of the world, it's not about Europe. This is about a right that has always been available to us. It is about the freedom ideal. I've been hearing: you don't have a good reason to need it. That's a very foreign concept, because rights aren't about reasons. In my American mind that gets filed along with being presumed guilty and with heavy handed unrepresentational government.

  9. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    I'm not trying to insult America. To me it doesn't matter which country it is about, it is the guns that I am against...
    It's not about guns.

  10. #320
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    I get what you mean Qlippoth, but I think the comparison is shakey in that nobody get's hurt if I am assumed innocent until proven guilty or adequatly represented by my member of parliament..quite to the contrary, it serves the general good. Arms on the other hand can both cause damage and help prevent damage. The question then is which outweighs the other.
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