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  1. #11
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Right, but man does fewer evild with a toothbrush.
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    What do you think about guns?

  3. #13
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    It IS, however quite a foreign sentiment. In my mind, it suggests greater protection by (and trust in) the police and military (ie non civilians). There are a lot of ways I don't think we are there in the US.
    This. We aspire to egalitarian principals. But, you know how it works with ideals...

  4. #14
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlippoth View Post
    People say Americans are gun happy cowboys, not a lot of Americans take offense at the accusation. I'm not really well versed with the issues, but I live in a part of the country where gun culture is very strong. I don't feel unsafe at all knowing that the guy next to me can legally conceal carry a firearm.

    But, it is disturbing that Gifford was able to get ahold of one legally,
    I will agree on both points. Most of the gun owners I know who are going to carry a weapon on them on a daily basis seem to take it quite seriously. But I do question a lot of people's skill (physical and emotional) at using them. I certainly question my own and would take it quite seriously if I were to have a gun, but I worry if other people don't.

    Regarding getting one legally with mental illness...

    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
    It is interesting to note that there have been two recent events--Arizona, Virginia, in which a mentally ill (undiagnosed?) has been able to legally obtain a weapon and kill with it.

    It is easy--very easy to get a gun illegally, though.
    Diagnostic issues certainly play into this.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  5. #15
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    My dad was a hunter. Here you have to take classes and pass exams etc, to get a hunting license, it's very strictly regulated. One day, many years ago, he looked out of the window and saw what looked like the family dog attacking my baby sister. my mum still thinks to this day he misinterpreted the situation. He grabbed his rifle and shot our dog. Didn't go down too smoothly with the local press, I have been told.

    There are situations when force has to be used. But the monopoly on violence lies with the state (at least that's what the German constitution says). It is the police's job to protect your family, not your own. That might have been a neccessity in the pioneer days of the West, don't know. The idea of a militia is basically unthinkable in the European Union. That's what armies are there for and even they are needed very little and mostly out of area.

    The more guns there are around the more likely they are to end in the wrong hands and the more likely they are to end up being used. As has been suggested before, it turns into a social arms race. Of all my friends and family from different countries I can only think of one person who owns a gun. He is with the US Army and only carries it in private, not when he wears his uniform...in Arizona, by the way. In my part of the world, I can not possibly imagine any reason to want to own a gun other than for hunting. And very, very few people hunt. My dad gave it up afew years later and gave away his rifle.
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  6. #16
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    Don't worry, I was being ironic. I too am European and that was my way of saying that I actually share nolla's view.
    All good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    A gun is one of many tools used by humans
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    Right, but man does fewer evild with a toothbrush.
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qlippoth View Post
    This. We aspire to egalitarian principals. But, you know how it works with ideals...
    There are the ideals, certainly. How do ideals work, not sure what you mean.

    But there are also the practical issues. What if someone breaks into my house? Will the police be there? What if there is a natural disaster? Will rule of law still be in effect? Will someone be there to defend me? (see: Katrina looting and other crime). These are things that people consider.
    Perhaps people feel safer and more assured that their fellow citizens won't rob them and that their government will help them in other countries? It could be a factor.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  7. #17
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    Perhaps people feel safer and more assured that their fellow citizens won't rob them and that their government will help them in other countries? It could be a factor.
    I think you are on to something here.
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  8. #18
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    There are the ideals, certainly. How do ideals work, not sure what you mean.

    But there are also the practical issues. What if someone breaks into my house? Will the police be there? What if there is a natural disaster? Will rule of law still be in effect? Will someone be there to defend me? (see: Katrina looting and other crime). These are things that people consider.
    Perhaps people feel safer and more assured that their fellow citizens won't rob them and that their government will help them in other countries? It could be a factor.
    Sometimes we do more damage when persuing ideals. If I sound like I'm just commenting on how things are and not stating an opinion, it's because that's exactly what I'm doing. My body reacts violently to the idea that I should trust it and that it should have powers that are above or not controlled by it's citizens. And it reacts against the idea that it should be responsible for my personal safety. If there's anything I've learned, the best a government can do is find out who killed me after the fact.

    But my mind is still open to better ways. But, the (general) European way will just not work here, that's certain.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    There are situations when force has to be used. But the monopoly on violence lies with the state

    It is the police's job to protect your family, not your own.
    I suppose some would say that there are cases (more numerous in some regions than in others) where this level of protection is completely inadequate (laughably so)

    An environment of tyranny by the protectors could easily explain the USA's own constitution.

  10. #20
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    I live in a remarkably safe town in a safe federal state of a pretty safe country with a low homocide rate. I feel safe, but not oppressed either.

    Guns are just not part of the culture.
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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