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  1. #171
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    There are situations when force has to be used. But the monopoly on violence lies with the state (at least that's what the German constitution says).
    Much good did that do for some German citizens in the 1930s - 40s.

    It is the police's job to protect your family, not your own.
    It is very nice for the state to look out for my family, but it is my family after all, and I should have the ability to protect them should I desire to do so.

    That might have been a neccessity in the pioneer days of the West, don't know.
    The ability for a person to exercise self defense should ALWAYS be available, wild wild west or no.

    To me, somebody saying the guarantees of the 2nd Amendment aren't necessary anymore because we live in a safe world isn't much different from somebody saying that the guarantees of the 1st Amendment aren't necessary anymore because we live in a liberal world.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  2. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Those same people who wanted to keep blacks in chains restricted blacks from owning guns for decades, too. And there is a bit of a difference in those areas, in that slavery and Jim Crow were unquestionably bad, while socialized health care and gun control are EXTREMELY arguable as policies.




    What if you aren't frightened, but highly educated and up on things about government health insurance and gun control and you STILL think they are really bad ideas? I mean, that is the Tea Party in essence. The median one is wealthier and more educated than the median adult American. Or what about libertarians? They're the most educated of all groups on the American political spectrum.



    I didn't attend any shitty public schools, except for a couple of years at a state-funded university that had a very good Film program. I did 9 years of mediocre Catholic schooling, followed by 4 years of excellent (and expensive) private high school, then 2 years of Ivy League university, before transferring. Now, I am in a very good (and Christian-but-not-really) private university grad school. And I still believe in a lot of what you seem to find backward. Explain.
    You're an elitist snob who chooses to believe that you're in the ranks of the genetically superior, so you've placed yourself firmly at the top of your libertarian fantasies at the expense of reality?

    I'm not anti-gun or anti-second ammendment (as I have gone on and on about in rich and personal detail in this thread) I just think that it should be harder for mentally unstable people to get their hands on weapons which quickly kill many.

  3. #173
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I just think that it should be harder for mentally unstable people to kill many.
    Few would argue this point. If you can find me some, I would be happy to debate them.

  4. #174
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Few would argue this point. If you can find me some, I would be happy to debate them.
    Indeed, few would. The question is really how much different people are willing to do to keep the guns out of psychos' hands, or how much they are willing to limit individual gun's effectiveness. Most would agree security, government, and government oversight is, to some degree, a good thing. But any form of governance or security costs freedom and effort. So, it's really down to the individual question of how much freedom people are willing to lose. There are people who oppose mass murder or gun crimes but, shit, they don't think it's worth losing the right to shoot a fully automatic weapon on their days off.

    (I personally don't care about guns, and wouldn't care if they were straight outlawed tomorrow. So there are some instances or policies where people may also look at it in terms of "how much good will this realistically do, how much of this can actually happen in our current culture, and how much of it is really worth fighting for in the current environment if it means losing other gains by spend time and influence on it?", but the general point stands)

  5. #175

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    Gun specific issues - Arizona shooting

    Maybe certified gun user should also take an insurance in case something happens. People who own cars are insured if they are involved in an accident. At least the victims get some money instead of copper bullets in their heads.

  6. #176
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crevalleJack View Post
    Gun specific issues - Arizona shooting

    Maybe certified gun user should also take an insurance in case something happens. People who own cars are insured if they are involved in an accident. At least the victims get some money instead of copper bullets in their heads.
    What about dog insurance?
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  7. #177
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Much good did that do for some German citizens in the 1930s - 40s.
    In the first place, people voted for the NSDAP, they wanted and liked Hitler.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    It is very nice for the state to look out for my family, but it is my family after all, and I should have the ability to protect them should I desire to do so.
    You have, just not with guns. You also do not need guns if few else possess them.

  8. #178

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    In Australia they banned everything but single shot after the Port Arthur Massacre. Hasn't been many spree shootings since, though knives are a problem in Melbourne at the moment. A few people have got hit with machetes and stuff by gangs. Gun control laws don't stop murder when people really want to kill people and they don't stop gangs having guns, they just make heated disputes between citizens a little safer.
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  9. #179
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    In the first place, people voted for the NSDAP, they wanted and liked Hitler.
    Yes - tyranny of the majority. I'm not a fan.

    You have, just not with guns. You also do not need guns if few else possess them.
    I don't know about you, but I wasn't born looking like John Wayne, and as such, I would prefer the assistance of modern technology to fend against those who are "meatier" than me.

    "God created men, Colt made them equal."
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  10. #180
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Damn it, Nicodemus beat me to it. I would have replied the same.

    This thread has become cyclical in that the same arguments are repeated over and over again on both sides. There seem to be three groups here: Americans favoring strong controls, Americans favoring limited control and the Non-Americans pretty much puzzledat the reasoning. There are intelligent, kind hearted and well meaning Americans carrying guns, I assume the majority of them, who have their own reasons to carry or own them. But those reasons seem to be intimately tied to American culture and a particular way of thinking that is foreign to us foreigners...so going by the reactions in this thread, you have to be American to fully understand, but if you are, you automatically understand the background to this.
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