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  1. #161
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    It also just occurred to me that you could be watching C-Span or PBS news talk shows. Those also might be more conduscive to sleep.

  2. #162
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Schopenhauer View Post
    My comment about suicide wasn't really related to anything in this thread. I just find that bit of information very interesting.

    My apologies.
    Well I think it shows something meaningful about the statistics, I didn't think it was irrelevant. Suicide by gunshot is actually a major component of the counted totals.

    I think statistics are good to have in conversations like this...
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  3. #163
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    It also just occurred to me that you could be watching C-Span or PBS news talk shows. Those also might be more conduscive to sleep.
    It doesn't get much more credible than CSPAN. I like to study those that don't use CSPAN as a primary news source. Sometimes I like what I find.

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    C Span and PBS are still credible. I was in this mindtrack thinking about the major news networks and the shit I usually see on other people's televisions.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    News shouldn't be a broadway show or an action film.
    Perhaps it shouldn't be, but unfortunately by it's very nature that's often what it becomes. Here is James Fenimore Cooper's assestment of the press in The American Democrat:
    "As the press of the country now exists, it would seem to be expressly devised by the great agent of mischief, to depress and destroy all that is good, and to elevate and advance all that is evil in the nation. The little truth that is urged, is usually urged coarsely, weakened and rendered vicious, by personalities and the schmes of the designing, find the press the very instrument that the devils would invent to effect their designs."
    And he was speaking this in 1838.

  6. #166
    The Unwieldy Clawed One Falcarius's Avatar
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    From a British prospective the modern interpretation of the second amendment is somewhat odd.

    Of all the amendments the second is arguable the most influenced by the English Bill of Rights. The amendment is a product of seventeenth century legal history in England, where legal precedent was that the country should have no standing armies during peace but rather just a militia. There was also a big concern about personal rights from the time of the Glorious Revolution, because of the aftermath of autocratic rulers of the likes of James II. Just before the Glorious Revolution in response to a few rebellions, James II restricted the right of Protestants to have guns while to he allowed Catholics the right to do so. The The English Bill of Rights reasserted the right of Protestants not to be disarmed by the monarchy without the consent of parliament.


    Rather than understanding it as a product of Anglo-American history where the need of militia were essential in a era without a police force, in the early post-revolutionary America this was even more vitally important for protection especially as Britain tried to disarm the American militia. America effectually has now erased the preamble of the Second Amendment, meaning it is now this romanticised individualistic rather wild west type idea, everyone now has the right to guns for their own self-defence. America turned public defence into household defence. The only countries what live up to the ideas which the right to bear arms where founded on are Israel and Switzerland. For example, the militia is embodied in how the army is set out in Switzerland. The Swiss have a heritage of being gun-carriers and gun-owners, where Swiss are required to spend time in the military and to take their weapons home to the mountains after they have finished serving.



    As for the recent Tucson shooting. In Arizona there is a concealed carry law where one does not even need a permit. Like the rest of America, one does not even need to know how to use a gun. One only needs to have a 'background check' if they buy from a licensed federal firearms gun dealer, otherwise there is no need to check at all and even then mental heath is barely taken into account. The suspected shooter Jared L. Loughner not only was rejected by the army for being mental unstable, he dropped out of Pima Community College after he was asked to provide "mental-health clearance" because he got suspended. Hence, despite being too mentally stable for college or the army it is apparently legally okay for him to have a Glock 19.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassa View Post
    Oh our 3rd person reference to ourselves denotes nothing more than we realize we are epic characters on the forum.

    Narcissism, plain and simple.

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcarius View Post
    From a British prospective the modern interpretation of the second amendment is somewhat odd.
    I love the British propensity for understatement.

  8. #168
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Oh no, we can't help our mentally ill more than we already do. That would be Socialism!
    Unfortunately the NZ government doesn't have such a good excuse as paranoia of socialism to explain our poor mental health system

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    You have a very interesting parallel there, with the ignorance of people who wanted to keep blacks in slavery, and then for the next hundred years wanted to treat them as second class citizens, and all of the ignorant people we have who are scared of health insurance and gun control.

    It's not even necessarily ignorance, though. Some of these people are educated. I guess anything they aren't used to frightens them. But why is this so true in our country as opposed to some others?

    Is it because our education system is so shitty? It's got to be something about our culture...
    This is a good question and its something I've long wondered. I don't think its is so easily explained by the media or school curriculum - it is more deep seated than this.

    My guess is that the way America has romanticized and idealised its past has had a dramatic affect. People have been drilled in the value of 'freedom' (of which an incredibly vague definition adds to the confusion) and to fear any threats to it, through the constant retelling of the American revolution and eventual independence. These stories have been treated almost as moral fables in which universal lessons must be learned as they are seen as still having bearing on the present. It has made people hyper-cognisant and extremely fearful of any restrictions because they have been taught that it leads to oppression - so much so that even change itself is seen as a form of restriction. Adding to this is the romanticism toward the constitution and its constant and unchanging nature, which have been adopted as universal values by the public at large. This means that sacrifices in public health, equality, safety etc are made because the concepts of 'freedom' and 'constancy' are seen as more significant and must be protected.

    But of course every culture has its hang ups that have serious knock on effects - this is not specific to America
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  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    You have a very interesting parallel there, with the ignorance of people who wanted to keep blacks in slavery, and then for the next hundred years wanted to treat them as second class citizens, and all of the ignorant people we have who are scared of health insurance and gun control.
    Those same people who wanted to keep blacks in chains restricted blacks from owning guns for decades, too. And there is a bit of a difference in those areas, in that slavery and Jim Crow were unquestionably bad, while socialized health care and gun control are EXTREMELY arguable as policies.


    It's not even necessarily ignorance, though. Some of these people are educated. I guess anything they aren't used to frightens them. But why is this so true in our country as opposed to some others?
    What if you aren't frightened, but highly educated and up on things about government health insurance and gun control and you STILL think they are really bad ideas? I mean, that is the Tea Party in essence. The median one is wealthier and more educated than the median adult American. Or what about libertarians? They're the most educated of all groups on the American political spectrum.

    Is it because our education system is so shitty? It's got to be something about our culture...
    I didn't attend any shitty public schools, except for a couple of years at a state-funded university that had a very good Film program. I did 9 years of mediocre Catholic schooling, followed by 4 years of excellent (and expensive) private high school, then 2 years of Ivy League university, before transferring. Now, I am in a very good (and Christian-but-not-really) private university grad school. And I still believe in a lot of what you seem to find backward. Explain.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Maybe so. I remember once a libertarian I know said to me, "America - love it or leave it." And I was thinking, well actually for the most part I like America just fine, maybe you paranoid, extremist freaks are the ones who need to leave.

    *imagines the U.S. chopped up into three new countries*
    That is one of the least libertarian sentiments one can have. I am convinced you either call people who aren't libertarians "libertarians," or you hang out with a lot of people who have adopted the term in the past decade to sound cool. That is so unlibertarian it's ridiculous.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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