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  1. #141
    Just a statistic rhinosaur's Avatar
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    Guns are a contingency. I don't know about how things work in Europe but around here the police can take 30 minutes to an hour to respond to a call, and a lot can happen in that time.

    The police system is fine when it works, and I trust it and rely on it on a daily basis, but what should I do if it fails? Hide? Grab a knife, stick, or brick? Same goes for the military. In the event of a disaster, or an invasion, or a riot, I want that contingency.

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhinosaur View Post
    The police system is fine when it works, and I trust it and rely on it on a daily basis, but what should I do if it fails? Hide? Grab a knife, stick, or brick? Same goes for the military. In the event of a disaster, or an invasion, or a riot, I want that contingency.
    I get that. It's a long shot, but yeah, anything might happen. But you do stack food and water for a couple of months too, right? That should be the first step to prepare yourself.

  3. #143
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Guns are also equalizers; a criminal with a baseball bat is likely to have a greater advantage over a victim with a baseball bat than is a a criminal with a gun over a victim with a gun.
    There are many, many possible scenarios. But when both parties use bats, the confrontation is less likely to end deadly. The criminal either uses or threatens to use their weapon. The victim either fights or surrenders. Now, using bats, stun guns, pepper sprays and firearms as examples: what is most likely to bring about dead people?

    Of course you will say that a ban on guns will result in criminals having and victims being without guns. But what if you start to collect all the guns on the streets while you prohibit the sale of ammunition and then, after a year, you start to collect all the other guns peaceful citizens keep in their homes? If any person who uses a gun is persecuted, people cease to like them.

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    And as for as maximizing safety is concerned, it probably makes more sense to ban backyard swimming pools than to ban guns; at least guns are more than just luxery items.
    By using a swimming pool, you can only kill yourself; by using a gun for safety, you will most likely kill someone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    That said, I'm actually fairly open, in principle, toward greater regulation of high-capacity weapons, but in practice am very wary of messing with the 2nd Amendment for fear that gun-control advocates will use the opportunity to take things too far in the other direciction, much like people who only support abortion up to the 2nd or third month are leery about overturning Roe v. Wade for the same reason
    What is so bad about a country without weapons?

  4. #144
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    Of course you will say that a ban on guns will result in criminals having and victims being without guns. But what if you start to collect all the guns on the streets while you prohibit the sale of ammunition and then, after a year, you start to collect all the other guns peaceful citizens have in their homes? If any person who uses a gun is persecuted, people cease to like them.
    What a simple way to start another civil war...

    People will give their guns back... bullets first.

  5. #145
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    What a simple way to start another civil war...
    Yes, you also need to eduacte the general public.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    People will give their guns back... bullets first.
    The state can buy them for the police of military.

  6. #146
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    I don't think you understand what I said.

    [YOUTUBE="D58LpHBnvsI"]Inconceivable[/YOUTUBE]

    By bullets first I meant that people will shoot those coming to take them, rather than give them up...

  7. #147
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I don't think you understand what I said.

    [YOUTUBE="D58LpHBnvsI"]Inconceivable[/YOUTUBE]

    By bullets first I meant that people will shoot those coming to take them, rather than give them up...
    I do realize that in a country where so many people are afraid of proper health insurance it will be difficult to achieve such a goal; difficult but not inconceivable, I believe. It would take time, certainly. But you almost managed to acknowledge equal rights for black people. That was 'inconceivable' as well.

    That film, by the way, is awful.

  8. #148
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    *yawn*

    It's still sad that you don't have anything better to do with your time than bother me.

    I'm off to buy some beers and hang with friends that I have IRL. Enjoy the internet.

  9. #149
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    *yawn*

    It's still sad that you don't have anything better to do with your time than bother me.

    I'm off to buy some beers and hang with friends that I have IRL. Enjoy the internet.
    This is about guns in America, not about you, kiddo.

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    I do realize that in a country where so many people are afraid of proper health insurance it will be difficult to achieve such a goal; difficult but not inconceivable, I believe. It would take time, certainly. But you almost managed to acknowledge equal rights for black people. That was 'inconceivable' as well.

    That film, by the way, is awful.
    You have a very interesting parallel there, with the ignorance of people who wanted to keep blacks in slavery, and then for the next hundred years wanted to treat them as second class citizens, and all of the ignorant people we have who are scared of health insurance and gun control.

    It's not even necessarily ignorance, though. Some of these people are educated. I guess anything they aren't used to frightens them. But why is this so true in our country as opposed to some others?

    Is it because our education system is so shitty? It's got to be something about our culture...

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