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  1. #111
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    "More guns = More corpses" seems pretty straightforward.
    Tell that to Switzerland; gun violence is a cultural phenomenom.

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Tell that to Switzerland; gun violence is a cultural phenomenom.
    Ok, so, for arguments sake, let's say that American culture is to blame. Is it wise to give them access to so much firepower? It is much more problematic to fix the culture than restrict the amount of guns.

  3. #113
    it's a nuclear device antireconciler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I was wondering what your point was, and it wasn't that guns were made specifically for killing. You've made that clear now, thanks.

    I'm not the person who says all guns should be taken away. I believe in the right to bear arms. However, I think some people are a bit hazy and unclear on why they need those guns.

    And I do fear those people and think they shouldn't have access to them, because goddammit, people have to live together. Everyone in the U.S. is so individualistic and has had so much freedom in their lives that they don't even realize how free they already are. These people demanding the freedom to do whatever they damn well please, because they can, even if time and again it's shown to do more harm than good to collective society and individual communities, have issues that are surely Narcissism and in some cases may be bordering on sociopathology.
    Our perspectives then must be very close. I would have said almost exactly that. I like the idea of letting people who want to surround themselves with guns and an individualistic lifestyle simply have their way, for resisting it seems merely to add to their delusion (what of commies and government conspiracy and any manner of other paranoia). Even though you are trying to help them, I know that, they cannot see it. So long as we treat them as dangers, they will see us as dangers, and the situation resembles a door being pulled strenuously against it's stop, when only pushing it gently the other way could free it. Or again, it is like chasing after a runaway child, who could never comprehend your coming after her except to deal her vengeance. If she is a fast runner, maybe it is better to let her run as far as she pleases and return home at her own pace. Dragging her home might not be worth the scratches and bite marks. However, we are dealing with adults, which changes the analogy.
    ~ a n t i r e c o n c i l e r
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    What is life, lives.

  4. #114
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Were you born there? I was. I think that might be why I've internalized it to such a degree. It was normality to me for the first twenty years of my life.
    Actually, I was born in Chicago, and grew up in Dallas. Dallas is technically a Southern city, but you don't get exposed to guns quite as much here as you might in a smaller, more typical Texas town, unless you run in NRA circles of course. I used to hear gunshots outside my apartment at night because of gangs (and sirens a few minutes later, thankfully), but not so much anymore.

    My dad lives out in some place called "Mansfield," and people are way more rural/country/traditional in their mentality there than I'm comfortable with, even though the city has started to develop into a much larger area.

    Ahhh...but I see it as a skill, a survival skill.
    I can grant you that, especially since it used to be a survival skill, and in more backwoods areas, probably still is one. It's mostly in major cities with established police forces, that I have an issue with people carrying guns. Because you know they're probably not going to hunt animals with them...
    No even my relatives who hunt or use guns for practical purposes (self-defense and/or military) think that shit is weird. I remember everyone called the cops on some weird guy who was walking around my mom's neighborhood in WV with a holster on his hip....she lives pretty far out, too. In a town, a neighborhood even, but down in a holler surrounded by mountains and trees.
    Well, that kind of thing would get a more divided response in Texas, from what I've seen. Some people would think it was suspicious, and a lot of others wouldn't. Of course, my Dad's weird behavior with weapons doesn't stop with guns. He's freaked me out a couple of times by pulling a switchblade out suddenly, like he was going to use it on someone... and then laughing, and using it to open up a package or something.


    I'm scared of those people not because they're bad, but because they're not fully sane. Anyone who thinks our government would have to be overthrown with violence apparently hasn't seen the dollar menu at McDonald's, never realized they could raise children without ever sending them once to a government-controlled public school, never realized that they're pretty fucking free to do what they please, but if they want to play with others, they might have to pay some taxes to have a fire department and a police station.

    I think people who don't want those things are delusional and should experiment on an island or spend a few years in the backwoods alone before they start to think the entire country should be that way.
    I would have to agree. It's mostly the feeling that they're crazy that worries me. They seem so paranoid and irrational, if sometimes still good-natured.

  5. #115
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Ok, so, for arguments sake, let's say that American culture is to blame. Is it wise to give them access to so much firepower? It is much more problematic to fix the culture than restrict the amount of guns.
    The criminal elements can easily buy illegal guns, anyway-all that would do is make regular citizens defenseless against them. In the United States, guns are used in self-defense (usually without a shot being fired) far more often than they are used to kill people.

    Edit: Besides, I much prefer to seek a culturally individualistic solutution than to try and solve one problem, but creating many others, by increasing dependence on government agencies for my personal protection outside of public places.

  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    The criminal elements can easily buy illegal guns, anyway-all that would do is make regular citizens defenseless against them. In the United States, guns are used in self-defense (usually without a shot being fired) far more often than they are used to kill people.

    Edit: Besides, I much prefer to seek a culturally individualistic solutution than to try and solve one problem, but creating many others, by increasing dependence on government agencies for my personal protection outside of public places.
    You seem to really take self protection quite seriously, and I assume you consider it a real threat that someone will come on to your property, and you have to defend yourself. I really wouldn't worry about that too much. Check this link, it's from FBI:

    http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/off...rtable_10.html

    Felony type total: 2,020
    Other than felony type total: 6,728
    And burglary is only 105!! It is more likely that your wife or girlfriend kills you...

  7. #117
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    And burglary is only 105!! It is more likely that your wife or girlfriend kills you...
    And only about 2 in 1,000 violent incidents end with guns used in self-defense (according to an American Journal of Public Health study). Having a gun will do virtually nothing to increase your safety. Better to look into home alarms.

  8. #118
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    The rate of suicides outweighs that of homicides.
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  9. #119
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Schopenhauer View Post
    The rate of suicides outweighs that of homicides.
    I guess, but I don't know how the availability (or specifics like clip size, manual, semi, or fully automatic or even bullet caliber) of guns would affect that. I guess you could hope they'd choose a less effective method, but it seems like someone going the gun route wants to make sure they die, and would do something else equally effective.

  10. #120
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    I don't know what suicide has to do with the topic (except to put the amount of homicides into perspective) but I think they should make a suicide pill that you could get easily and would be sure to cause no pain. It should be basic human right to kill yourself and not suffer.

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