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  1. #101
    Senor Membrane
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    Quote Originally Posted by antireconciler View Post
    It's not though. If you walk into someone's house you don't know well you may very well suspect upon seeing a gun some degree of hostility as though it is conspicuous as a kind of warning to you. Anyone would hide a gun from someone they didn't know in the same way a friendly dog won't bear its teeth and make them obvious to you except as a kind of warning. Just because a dog has very sharp teeth though doesn't mean it's dangerous or that it should have it's teeth dulled even though ripping and shredding flesh is part of what some of them are for.
    Still, a violent person, when upset, would see the gun as a way to harm people. Or to have control over them. Either way, I think that if there is a fight going on, the chances are quite high that someone will pick up that gun.

  2. #102
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    You wanted your father to go to prison for teaching your brothers to fire guns? Nearly every man (or so it seems) in the South teaches his son to hunt at the same age. My grandfather did the same, and I'm not obsessed with guns in the least. No one in my family is, actually, although my mother has guns in her house. My exes family had guns in their house, but only for hunting and self-defense. Most of my relatives have guns. But I don't consider even one of them "gun nuts."
    I think that maybe I just don't belong in the South.
    Owning guns and learning to safely use them as a child for sensible purposes does not a gun nut make, not by a long shot. It's certainly not something to be imprisoned for.
    This all just seems to hark back to a much more backwards and lawless time... it doesn't seem right for modern people to live this way. But that's just my opinion, I guess.

    Ok. That's fucking crazy.
    Thank you. At least now I know I'm not totally crazy for thinking he brings the gun into inappropriate situations.
    Yeah I have a libertarian friend who is male, he's really nice for the most part, a pretty giving, idealistic person ... I wouldn't call him a bad or violent person at all, he's actually kind of a hippie...but he's insane. He's a paranoid libertarian gun nut. To a point that it sometimes gave me the creeps, although he was always nice.
    I would be pretty scared of a person like that, to be honest with you. I don't know if they're all bad people, but it seems like associating with them is quite a big risk if they are.

    To protect themselves from Indians? *slams head on desk*
    I'm sorry, I should have said, "to force Native Americans from their land."

  3. #103
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    What is the point of a Glock 19 pistol? Seems the only purpose of one is to be used against people.

    I don't have the experience of living in a culture where handguns are common practice, I've never lived in a place where I felt I needed a firearm of any kind in my home to protect me or my loved ones and I've never had to ask myself if the people around me are carrying because they're not. I accept that I do not understand American culture. But it's gotta be obvious to the stupidest of morons that firearms are an issue in America, specifically the sheer number of them, and the current system and/or culture creates problems like what happened with the Congresswoman. Defend your right to bear arms all you want but don't pretend that doesn't create problems. Gun manufacturers love America, you guys import/make so many each year it makes my eyes boggle, there's always enough to go around if the crazies want them, the answer to that is not "lets arm everyone who isn't crazy then". There has to be a better way, effed if I know what it is tho.

  4. #104
    it's a nuclear device antireconciler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Dogs are for companionship, and dog's teeth are for eating food and playing with chew toys. This is not a valid comparison.

    You really don't understand the subconscious mind, do ya?

    It's not social convention. Trust me. I grew up surrounded by guns - but surrounded by people who used them sensibly and kept them locked away so angry people couldn't pick them up on impulse, and young children couldn't use them by accident.

    The purpose of why the thing exists is very much the point.
    Sorry, I had to edit because I wasn't understanding quite what you were saying. I agree of course. There is no reason to lead someone to be afraid who would be afraid by seeing such a thing, as concern for the welfare of others and responsibility will lead you to keep your guns secure where they won't fall into hands which would not be trustworthy.

    However, the purpose of why a thing exists (for the design of a gun may very well be linked to killing people, I really don't know, but it sounds plausible), is separate from the meaning it has when you see it. For, in another context, say I knew you to be a trained marksmanship shooter and a trustworthy friend, I would not be frightened at all to see you show me carefully your favorite guns, as I know marksmanship shooting to be a very enjoyable pastime. That doesn't mean that people should leave their guns out and say "well, it's just an ordinary object", because it's realistic for others to be afraid and it's unkind and irresponsible to not think of that and to not take compassionate action such as letting people only know about a gun if you can expect them to trust you with it in your hands.

    It is a great pleasure of adulthood and citizenship that you may enjoy nice freedoms if you are responsible with them and treat them as privileges.
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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I think that maybe I just don't belong in the South.
    Were you born there? I was. I think that might be why I've internalized it to such a degree. It was normality to me for the first twenty years of my life.


    This all just seems to hark back to a much more backwards and lawless time... it doesn't seem right for modern people to live this way. But that's just my opinion, I guess.
    Ahhh...but I see it as a skill, a survival skill.

    Thank you. At least now I know I'm not totally crazy for thinking he brings the gun into inappropriate situations.
    No even my relatives who hunt or use guns for practical purposes (self-defense and/or military) think that shit is weird. I remember everyone called the cops on some weird guy who was walking around my mom's neighborhood in WV with a holster on his hip....she lives pretty far out, too. In a town, a neighborhood even, but down in a holler surrounded by mountains and trees.

    I would be pretty scared of a person like that, to be honest with you. I don't know if they're all bad people, but it seems like associating with them is quite a big risk if they are.
    I'm scared of those people not because they're bad, but because they're not fully sane. Anyone who thinks our government would have to be overthrown with violence apparently hasn't seen the dollar menu at McDonald's, never realized they could raise children without ever sending them once to a government-controlled public school, never realized that they're pretty fucking free to do what they please, but if they want to play with others, they might have to pay some taxes to have a fire department and a police station.

    I think people who don't want those things are delusional and should experiment on an island or spend a few years in the backwoods alone before they start to think the entire country should be that way.

    I'm sorry, I should have said, "to force Native Americans from their land."

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by antireconciler View Post
    Sorry, I had to edit because I wasn't understanding quite what you were saying. I agree of course. There is no reason to lead someone to be afraid who would be afraid by seeing such a thing, as concern for the welfare of others and responsibility will lead you to keep your guns secure where they won't fall into hands which would not be trustworthy.

    However, the purpose of why a thing exists (for the design of a gun may very well be linked to killing people, I really don't know, but it sounds plausible), is separate from the meaning it has when you see it. For, in another context, say I knew you to be a trained marksmanship shooter and a trustworthy friend, I would not be frightened at all to see you show me carefully your favorite guns, as I know marksmanship shooting to be a very enjoyable pastime. That doesn't mean that people should leave their guns out and say "well, it's just an ordinary object", because it's realistic for others to not be afraid and it's unkind and irresponsible to not think of that and to not take compassionate action such as letting people only know about a gun if you can expect them to trust you with it in your hands.
    I guess the point I didn't make clear is that I grew up surrounded by guns used properly and never to frighten or threaten me, and even would know how to shoot a person if I had to in self-defense, and yet I still feel a healthy sense of respect and fear when I see a gun, no matter who is showing it to me.

    This makes me think that people have visceral reactions to guns because they ALWAYS SUBCONSCIOUSLY know why they exist, not just because of the meaning of the context in which it is used.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    The reason why my grandfather taught me to shoot a gun is because we lived way out in the middle of no where (like seriously I'm trying to remember where the nearest hospital and police station was in proximity to our house) and he went out of town sometimes for work and wanted me to be able to defend myself.

    This kind of thinking is reasonable. Reasonable gun ownership is sane and normal, and it relates to actual statistical probabilities of being attacked and having no one else to defend you.

    Reasonable people teach their children to respect guns.

    Unreasonable people take their eight year olds to gun shows and allow them to pick up machine guns because they think it's "cool" and then the kid ends up shooting himself or someone else.

    Unreasonable people carry multiple guns with them everywhere at all times.

    Unreasonable people think they need automatic weapons.
    I agree with this, and I grew up in a similar culture. A significant number of our small town were hunters, and many were poor and needed to hunt to provide for their families. As an animal lover, I'm not crazy about the hunting, but I understand the need, and I don't feel unsafe around responsible hunters.

    My dad didn't hunt, but he always had a handgun for protection, because he owned a convenience store at the time and often carried large amounts of money to the bank by himself. He was very safe with his gun, but I was always a little freaked out by its presence. Later on, I took a gun safety and self-defense class given by the sheriff's dept, and learned how to safely handle and shoot a gun. It alleviated my fear of them, and I really enjoyed target practice, because I was a natural at it, to my surprise.

    My dad wants me to have a concealed weapons permit now, because he worries about me, living with a female roommate and often coming back late from gigs. I would be fine with owning a gun. And I'll tell you, I'm definitely not gun-happy, nor do I take any pleasure in harming or killing any living thing. But if someone broke into my house and tried to rape me or something, I would have zero problem using the gun to defend myself. I would not be the bad guy in that scenario.

    I agree with others who say that gun prohibition would just foster a very dangerous black market here in America. We are very much divided on gun control here, whereas I get the impression that in Europe, very little of the population sees a need for private citizens to own guns. We'd have to have much more of a concensus to outlaw gun ownership, and I don't see that happening anytime in the near future.

    I think, less that guns themselves being the problem, we have a societal problem. There are more crazies and wingnuts out and about than there used to be, and part of it is our culture of glorification of celebrity of any kind. I think so many want to make their mark on the world, and have their names known as soon as they do their handiwork. They know they'll be a cultural footnote, and they'll have achieved a place in history. And being off their rockers, they don't really care that it's bad press. So many of them feel ostracized from their communities, and they want payback, not realizing that what happens in high school wouldn't have even mattered to them in five years. We're also raising a generation of extremely self-absorbed individuals. The only thing that matters is them. Their thoughts, their feelings, their comfort, their way. I think these are all issues that, given some attention, would go a long way toward making gun accessibility a moot point. Well adjusted people don't kill people they disagree with, just because they own or have access to a gun.
    Something Witty

  8. #108
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I am in no way opposed to hunting rifles. However, there is a big difference between allowing civilians to own guns designed to kill animals and allowing guns specifically designed to kill people.
    Yeah, the difference being that hunting rifles are of limited utility when it comes to the protection of people and property.

  9. #109
    it's a nuclear device antireconciler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I guess the point I didn't make clear is that I grew up surrounded by guns used properly and never to frighten or threaten me, and even would know how to shoot a person if I had to in self-defense, and yet I still feel a healthy sense of respect and fear when I see a gun, no matter who is showing it to me.

    This makes me think that people have visceral reactions to guns because they ALWAYS SUBCONSCIOUSLY know why they exist, not just because of the meaning of the context in which it is used.
    I would have such a healthy sense of respect and fear handling high voltage wires, although they are much less commonly used with the intention to kill. The mains power lines coming into my house for example would be quite distant from that intention. It is a very powerful thing, a gun. It is worth being very aware of the magnitude of its power.

    Do you not love the privilege though of the opportunity of that kind of responsibility? It is nice simply to say "I can do it", even if there is nothing on Earth that needs defending, don't you think so? It is nice to be permitted to stand on the edge of a cliff too and reflect on the power of it. Even, it is beautiful and wondrous. Even, it keeps you close to nature, considering your mortality and responsibility. Even, I feel genuine love for that.
    ~ a n t i r e c o n c i l e r
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  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by antireconciler View Post
    I would have such a healthy sense of respect and fear handling high voltage wires, although they are much less commonly used with the intention to kill. The mains power lines coming into my house for example would be quite distant from that intention. It is a very powerful thing, a gun. It is worth being very aware of the magnitude of its power.

    Do you not love the privilege though of the opportunity of that kind of responsibility? It is nice simply to say "I can do it", even if there is nothing on Earth that needs defending, don't you think so? It is nice to be permitted to stand on the edge of a cliff too and reflect on the power of it. Even, it is beautiful and wondrous. Even, it keeps you close to nature, considering your mortality and responsibility.
    I was wondering what your point was, and it wasn't that guns were made specifically for killing. You've made that clear now, thanks.

    I'm not the person who says all guns should be taken away. I believe in the right to bear arms. However, I think some people are a bit hazy and unclear on why they need those guns.

    And I do fear those people and think they shouldn't have access to them, because goddammit, people have to live together. Everyone in the U.S. is so individualistic and has had so much freedom in their lives that they don't even realize how free they already are. These people demanding the freedom to do whatever they damn well please, because they can, even if time and again it's shown to do more harm than good to collective society and individual communities, have issues that are surely Narcissism and in some cases may be bordering on sociopathology.

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