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Thread: I love Berkeley

  1. #11
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMWarner View Post
    The Marines should be allowed to stay. If the residents don't like the military, then don't enlist. God forbid you should set up shop and offer people a job.

    Only in Berkeley.
    Exactly. Perhaps we should just disband our entire military, and maybe the entire world would be so impressed they would do likewise.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  2. #12
    Don't pet me. JAVO's Avatar
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    It's good to see the educated people at Berkeley are keeping an open mind about military service and recruiting.

    In high school and even into college, I talked seriously with recruiters from the army and air force. I'm glad they were in town. It was more convenient, and they helped me make an informed decision. My decision was not to join, even though I was very seriously considering a career as an officer for many years.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Priam's Avatar
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    While I think the Berkley thing is stupid granstanding by pacifists (not necessarily bad) trying to look "cool" and "edgy" (generally very bad), there's a point to be made against military recruitment in high schools and colleges. While many recruiters are dedicated soldiers honestly trying to sign people up based on facts, there has been tacit, or even active, promotion by the Powers that Be of lying and distortion campaigns to get new blood. I have heard story after story of recruiters telling naive kids outright lies about their likely military profession past boot camp, the chances of the recruit getting assigned to stints in combat zones and the length of said assignment.

    Concerned schools wouldn't allow other institutions with such a record of deceit a pulpit to actively solicit teens, so why should the military be allowed any such exception? Until there is any sign of enforced ethical conduct on a wider scale, I'm all for schools refusing permission for military recruiters to set up shop. Unfortunately the federal government seems more concerned with bullying rather than fixing the problems...
    "The subject chooses to sit in shadow and search for wisdom by reflecting upon his trial. The problem is not that he is cold and wet, but that cold and wet seems problematic, so he embraces those hardships in order to best them."

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Priam View Post
    While I think the Berkley thing is stupid granstanding by pacifists (not necessarily bad) trying to look "cool" and "edgy" (generally very bad), there's a point to be made against military recruitment in high schools and colleges. While many recruiters are dedicated soldiers honestly trying to sign people up based on facts, there has been tacit, or even active, promotion by the Powers that Be of lying and distortion campaigns to get new blood. I have heard story after story of recruiters telling naive kids outright lies about their likely military profession past boot camp, the chances of the recruit getting assigned to stints in combat zones and the length of said assignment.

    Concerned schools wouldn't allow other institutions with such a record of deceit a pulpit to actively solicit teens, so why should the military be allowed any such exception? Until there is any sign of enforced ethical conduct on a wider scale, I'm all for schools refusing permission for military recruiters to set up shop. Unfortunately the federal government seems more concerned with bullying rather than fixing the problems...
    I'll concede that perhaps military recruiting might on occasion paint a rosier picture of service than the experience most people have. But in this particular instance, that's irrelevant. The Marine recruiting office was not located in a high school, and was not located on a college campus. It was simply in an office within the city limits. You could choose to visit the recruiting office or not. Because of this, I find it hard to support the city council's original stance. I also find it ironic that so many people associated with a university are so appalled at a sacred cow selling a line of BS to young people. That's rich.
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  5. #15
    The Destroyer Colors's Avatar
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    I agree. I hated the persistent recruiting in high school and am totally against the clipping on of that legislation to No Child Left Behind (which sucks on its own merit anyhow), but a military recruitment office outside of school? It's awfully condescending to actively protest against that. I don't think it's necessary for vegetarians to protest in front of a steakhouse...

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colors View Post
    I agree. I hated the persistent recruiting in high school and am totally against the clipping on of that legislation to No Child Left Behind (which sucks on its own merit anyhow), but a military recruitment office outside of school? It's awfully condescending to actively protest against that. I don't think it's necessary for vegetarians to protest in front of a steakhouse...
    Opposition to the military isn't some trivial matter of personal taste. It's the job of the military to break things and kill people. If the citizens of Berkley are morally opposed to the military recruiting young people (everyone under 35 suffers from acute stupidity) to fight in wars which they consider unjustified then I see nothing wrong with them trying to evict the recruiters from town.




    /young
    //stupid
    ///supports the military killing the bad guys
    ////thinks they're doing it wrong

  7. #17
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    I just wanted to add in case people think the hippies are running things, that the vote was rescinded...or 'modified'.

    And the demonstrations associated with the vote were very heated on both sides. A lot of people spoke for and against.

    The motion was a symbolic act, and especially from the backlash from Washington, local politicians, and even residents I would have been surprised if they had gone through with it. Which was to write a letter asking the Marine office to move and condemning the Marine recruiters as "unwelcome and univited intruders"

    Now the city just has an official stance that is anti-war.

    I think one thing that always gets lost in these debates though is that the majority of anti-war protesters aren't anti-military individuals and their families. They say pretty clearly and repeatedly they are against war-mongering, immoral/illegal/senseless acts of aggression, and at most anarchist they are against war machines.

    The most well organized and persistent anti-war protesters, at least like Code Pink, are middle aged and older white American born and bred women. They are very much the mothers, grandmothers, aunts, and sisters of men who are likely to be drafted or volunteer to enlist. Hardly anarchist.

  8. #18
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    I think one thing that always gets lost in these debates though is that the majority of anti-war protesters aren't anti-military individuals and their families.
    That's interesting considering that they appear to be protesting the recruitment of soldiers.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  9. #19
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    Opposition to the military isn't some trivial matter of personal taste. It's the job of the military to break things and kill people. If the citizens of Berkley are morally opposed to the military recruiting young people (everyone under 35 suffers from acute stupidity) to fight in wars which they consider unjustified then I see nothing wrong with them trying to evict the recruiters from town.




    /young
    //stupid
    ///supports the military killing the bad guys
    ////thinks they're doing it wrong
    Hypothetical and would never happen, but:

    What if all of America decided they didn't agree with a conflict that the U.S. was engaged in? What if every city wanted recruiting stations out? Just because of a bad conflict the military shouldn't be able to recruit? The U.S. military should have every right to seek out the citizens that are willing/wanting to join and the means to get in should be as accessible and convenient as possible. Why should some ultra left-wing city be able to spit in the face of its military like that? This country was built and sustained by its military and I'll be damned if a group of bitchy hippies are gonna tell them to get lost. That's a right I think no city should be awarded.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBeatGoesOn View Post
    Hypothetical and would never happen, but:

    What if all of America decided they didn't agree with a conflict that the U.S. was engaged in? What if every city wanted recruiting stations out? Just because of a bad conflict the military shouldn't be able to recruit?
    They can try. I don't know if it's even legally possible to evict the federal government. The antiwar people can protest and the military can just sit there and continue recruiting.

    The U.S. military should have every right to seek out the citizens that are willing/wanting to join and the means to get in should be as accessible and convenient as possible.
    Of course. The government can setup shop anywhere it likes. It is the government after all.

    Why should some ultra left-wing city be able to spit in the face of its military like that?
    Free speech.

    This country was built and sustained by its military and I'll be damned if a group of bitchy hippies are gonna tell them to get lost. That's a right I think no city should be awarded.
    I guess someone had to move all those Native Americans off our land. Bunch of squatters. The revolution and WWII were the only justified wars the US has ever fought. All the others were political or imperialist bullshit. I'm not even sure the revolution was justified. If we were a common wealth nation like Canada, Australia and New Zealand it would certainly deflate a lot of this overinflated nationalist egotism. It's a fucking country, Americans need to get over themselves.

    I oppose the Iraq war, support the Afghan war and think Bush is the mongoloid puppet of the neocon cabal. I think the antiwar movement is a bunch of self righteous, bleeding heart whiners. I have no love for the military. To paraphrase Gunnery Sergeant Hartman, They are pukes. They are the lowest form of life on Earth. They are not even human, fucking beings. They are nothing but unorganized grabastic pieces of amphibian shit.

    So there's me. On no one's side. I just live here.

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