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  1. #31

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    I don't understand how this makes him racist, he had nothing to do with it. His great grandaddy was probably just a wee sperm cell when this happened.

    If they were given into slavery by their own people, that is their fault. I can see why you might want to blame the white man for buying them, but even then, this is not Hexic's doing and does not apply to him; unless your argument is that it applies to him because he is white, in which case maybe he's not the racist one.
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  2. #32
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    well, if the white men still bought and used the slaves for thier own good, and did not give them the freedom it IS the white man's fault- demand begets supply

    It's not the slaves themselves' faults anyways- it's thier leaders' faults- NOBODY in thier right mind would sell themselves into slavery (some did sell themselves into indentured servitude, but that wasn't supposed to be for life- and your descendant's lives)
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  3. #33
    Member Rhadamanthus's Avatar
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    So... I read that there were a lot of Irish slaves, too. That doesn't have much to do with the thread, I just found it kind of interesting. The Irish couldn't catch a break, either, it seems.
    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade View Post
    Are you trying to sound like Yoda?

    What exactly are you asking(in normal English)?
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    *scattering done beforehand not to waste space* "If the Scat Man can do it, brotha, so can you!" BABABADABO Skeebibididiyodadadum ZizSazouiiscatbobliboobizizizScoobydoobyscoobydoom elody! I'm the Scat Man...." *sccccattttttt*

  4. #34
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by disTant_eCHo View Post
    If they were given into slavery by their own people, that is their fault. .
    If you don't see/understand how this statement/belief is inherently/logically wrong, then I do not see any purpose in trying to enlighten you.
    `
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  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    If you don't see/understand how this statement/belief is inherently/logically wrong, then I do not see any purpose in trying to enlighten you.
    I don't know how you can find this statement/belief to be inherently/logically correct in the first place, and until you present your argument to me then I likely never will.
    Quote Originally Posted by ByMySword View Post
    ... if you don't know who Neil Peart is, then you're probably going to hell.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    slavery is despicable... taking someone as a slave, selling a slave, buying a slave, or rationalizing any part of that. i dont see how you can possibly see any part of it that is "ok" because blah blah blah

  7. #37
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    but I gave you a perfectly reasonable argument and you DIDN'T respond for that!

    Slavery was a result of the destabilization and civil war that was introduced into African cultures by the european colonizers- slavery started when the European colonists in the Americas had succeeded in using up the Native populations or killing them with diseases and needed more workers to work in thier plantations and mines. Since they had just opened up trade and exploration (and exploitation) of the African nations, they decided to start shipping Africans from the tribes that they had already destroyed to the Americas to do thier heavy manual labor. (how did the Europeans, namely the Portuguese at first, destabilize the African cultures? by forcing them into governmental models that were not traditional or understandable and introducing things like alcohol)

    Slavery was introduced to Latin America first, and then spread to the United States as our plantation economy rising and the lack of sufficient indentured servants or native people to do all of the work that it entailed. Purchasing other human beings to do the work- humans who you would not need to pay or eventually release- seemed to be a practical and economical move for the plantation owner. The slave trade, and the fact that the slave owners kept the offspring of thier slaves, eventually led to there being a lot of African slaves in the United States.

    While we all know that the prime cause of the Civil War was not slavery, some media whores of the day were good at inserting it as a reason that we were fighting, which made southerners after the war all the more bitter towards the newly free African Americans. And we all know as well that scapegoats are quite easy to find and blame during periods of economic hardship and feelings of defeat, which is what led to the century of oppression of those of African descent in the US that still has not completely ended. In this century we saw lynchings, abuse, defranchisement, Jim Crow laws and basic dehumanization of people of African descent- and many of the oppressors used the stars and bars as thier symbol, since it was the potent symbol of the confederate cause, which had united most southerners, poor or rich (it was necissary to find a means for uniting the poor and rich since the populist movement in the late 1800s had nearly split the white southerners).

    African Americans did not ask to have thier cultures destabilized by European colonizers, they did not ask for thier cheifs to sell them to European traders, and they certainly did not ask for or deserve the centuries of slavery that they were forced to endure in the new world. And it is because of the century of abuse post-civil war and the use of the confederate flag (the second one, which was also the confederate battle flag) it is considered a potent symbol of racism and oppression and should not be used in public because of the emotional weight that it slings.

    hope that clears everything up a bit!
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  8. #38
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhadamanthus View Post
    So... I read that there were a lot of Irish slaves, too. That doesn't have much to do with the thread, I just found it kind of interesting. The Irish couldn't catch a break, either, it seems.
    Yeah, the Irish had it pretty rough. Many times they took the jobs that people weren't willing to use their slaves on, since they were too valuable.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

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    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  9. #39
    Senior Member Hexis's Avatar
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    Im not rationalizing slavery or condoneing it. I am not a racist, my hate for stupidity and ignorance is well place over the total of mankind. And I do not care if my veiws or oponions are seen as morally wrong, im not a moral man. I know just as well as anyone what is right and what is wrong.

    When I said it was their own fault I meant rather that it was their fault for staying slaves. Now yes they where forced into it and yes they where probably beaten into submission, but what im saying is I would die before I let another man hold my freedom. There are many records showing that many slaves where happy with their masters. They where given shelter, food, clothing and tooken care of. The number of slaves that where treated badly is actually quite low. Slaves where expensive and you dont just go around killing your best equipment. And many came to think it was fine being as slave, now of course they would like better but what did they do about it nothing!

    It took two generations for slaves to begin rising up and trying to take ahold of their freedom. I personally think thats too long. What im saying is that I dont believe any man deserves respect or even the treatment of being a human being if they willing stay under the control of another. Once you decide to stop fighting back and stop trying, then I do not feel you deserve my respect. Survival of the fittest.
    SDMF

  10. #40
    Member Rhadamanthus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexis View Post
    but what im saying is I would die before I let another man hold my freedom.
    Sure you would. :rolli: It's easy to say something like that, when you don't have to worry about being enslaved, but I'm sure if you were actually in that position, you'd choose slavery over death.
    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade View Post
    Are you trying to sound like Yoda?

    What exactly are you asking(in normal English)?
    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition View Post
    *scattering done beforehand not to waste space* "If the Scat Man can do it, brotha, so can you!" BABABADABO Skeebibididiyodadadum ZizSazouiiscatbobliboobizizizScoobydoobyscoobydoom elody! I'm the Scat Man...." *sccccattttttt*

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