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  1. #21
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    today's laughable irony brought to you by...

    Quote Originally Posted by ByMySword View Post
    One ugly fat ass white woman stands up and says:

    " I see low class, white trash, racist hatred and bigotry!"

  2. #22
    ByMySword
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grayscale View Post
    today's laughable irony brought to you by...
    Thanks Grayscale! Be sure to tune in next week folks where we blow the lid on other wacky and crazy stereotypes! lol.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    anytime, buddy!

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ByMySword View Post
    It was created for the formation of a separate country who believed in state's rights. Slavery was just the state right that Union wanted to abolish during that time. The South was afraid mainly of the power the federal govt was gaining.
    What you said here is only a subtle distinction away from bullshit. When comparing how various laws were made at the time, support for slavery came in general from southern areas, whether or not it involved increased or decreased federal government interference. (See support for U.S. expansion, plenty supported, constitutional decisions made after declaring the confederacy, etc.)

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zergling View Post
    What you said here is only a subtle distinction away from bullshit. When comparing how various laws were made at the time, support for slavery came in general from southern areas, whether or not it involved increased or decreased federal government interference. (See support for U.S. expansion, plenty supported, constitutional decisions made after declaring the confederacy, etc.)
    I am not saying that slavery wasn't supported in the South! But not everyone fought for the Confederacy for the case of slavery! General Robert E. Lee was asked to fight for the Union. He almost did, until Virginia succeeded from the Union. Because of this, he fought for the South. This is perfectly natural. People feel closer to their most local form of government. Why? Because they feel that it will affect them the most. Oh, and even though the majority of pro-slavery was from the South, there were many in the North as well who were pro-slavery as well.:rolli:

  6. #26
    Senior Member Hexis's Avatar
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    I agree that the flag holds many negative sentiments that considereing its once proud history is just wrong. I believe that all that MySword is trying to say is that its outrageous that people must see the negatives of this beuatiful symbol before looking to the history of it.

    I agree with MySword and I think all that he is trying to accomplish in this thread is that he is trying to point out that this symbol has a proud and lovely history to it. A history that should not be tarnished with the oponions of the uneducated and ignorantly blind.

    Now I do not condone racism or slavery, but I do feel that it was their own fault. Anybody who is even slightly educated knows the slaves where sold as such by their own people. So I do not think its right when such people want to blame the confederacy for it and not their own heritage.

    I personally think that the whole slavery thing was traggic yes, but an overall good thing. If it wasnt for the whiteman being willing to use such cheap labor and take them back to the americas then the black man would have never been in america. And thus never haveing the freedoms and rate of liveing they have now in this land of opprotunity. Now I dont think we should be thanked for it, thats stupid. But I do think it should be taken into account.

    So what im saying is that the whole slavery thing is their own fault, and just because it happened at the same time of the civil war is not a reason to take and tear apart the history of this beutiful symbol.
    SDMF

  7. #27
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    The meaning behind symbols is dynamic. You can't expect it to stay the same or for people to be aware of their original or 'true' meanings. It's a lot like language. You can say things that are technically correct but have people misunderstand your meaning dramatically because the common use of the words you use has changed with time.

    For example, you could say "Last night I had the gayest intercourse with my mate!" and mean "Last night I had a great time shooting the breeze with my buddy." That is not, however, what people are going to think you mean.

    Same with the Confederate flag. The common meaning of the symbol has changed. It has come to be seen as a racist symbol. Since you are a student of history, you probably also know that a burning cross was not originally a racist symbol, either, but I hope that you would use the phone or email to invite your buddies to a get-together instead of lighting a cross in your yard. In common use, both symbols represent the appalling mistreatment of an entire race of people.

    If you would not be misunderstood, you must make your message clear to your audience. If you do not care whether or not you are understood, then why bemoan the fact that you are not?
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ByMySword View Post
    Our teacher asked us what we think of when we see the Confederate Flag. All I hear are grumbles and negative comments. One ugly fat ass white woman stands up and says:

    " I see low class, white trash, racist hatred and bigotry!"

    Well, I just couldn't take it anymore...in a very very civilized and calm voice I say:

    " I see history and heritage. This flag is apart of our past, and we cannot deny that."

    Well, as you can imagine this started an uproar! Here is one defender of the land of cotton against an entire classroom of politically correct fools.


    Towards the end, the same woman stands up and looks directly at me (remember, she's white):

    (In an extremely loud and rude tone)

    " I have two black children so I feel very strongly about this! That whole thing you said about the flag being historical is fucking bullshit! That is all it is! Bullshit! It is hatred! Plain and Simple!"

    My response:


    4) This means that I do not judge one on color, but rather on their character and by their actions
    5) I consider myself a Libertarian Republican and I am a Christian, so any opposite of these beliefs would directly interfere with my political stance and religion.
    The Nazis were Christian, as were slave owners, so I really don't see how your being Christian helps to paint you as being the fair-minded individual that I believe these 5 FYIs are intended to do.

    Also, I question the legitimacy of your fourth description of yourself where you assert that you are nonjudgmental of appearances, (at least I believe that's the gist of what you're trying to convey.)

    Your deliberate choice in words to describe the woman with whom you had a problem, as being "One ugly fat ass white woman", speaks volumes on your true character, which just so happens to contradict the values that you assigned yourself as having.

    What, pray tell, is the relevance, or reasoning behind your qualifying this woman as being ugly, fat, and white?!?!??!?

    How does her "ugliness" have anything at all to do with the ignorant opinion you are arguing that she is making?

    How does her having a "fat ass" affect, relate or correspond to the fact that she happens to be making what you deem to be, idiotic assertions?

    And lastly, how does her being white have anything at all to do with validating, or invalidating her opinion?. Would it be different if she were black?!?!?!




    Personally, I am not a patriot, and find almost all flags to be foolish. However, if someone wants to wave their flag, regardless of what that flag might be, or represent, I say, more power to them.

    " I see history and heritage. This flag is apart of our past, and we cannot deny that."

    Both currently and historically speaking, the act of erecting and displaying flags has indubitably been exercised by man to overtly express/publicize his pride in membership, and his dutiful allegiance to that which that flag happens to represents.

    If my neighbor waves this flag...



    I don't think it would be presumptuous for me to draw certain conclusions, i.e. that he most likely hates Jews, along with every other race/ethnicity besides that of the Aryan race.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ByMySword View Post
    I am not saying that slavery wasn't supported in the South! But not everyone fought for the Confederacy for the case of slavery! General Robert E. Lee was asked to fight for the Union. He almost did, until Virginia succeeded from the Union. Because of this, he fought for the South. This is perfectly natural. People feel closer to their most local form of government. Why? Because they feel that it will affect them the most. Oh, and even though the majority of pro-slavery was from the South, there were many in the North as well who were pro-slavery as well.:rolli:
    We could make similar arguments for any sort of argument, or any sort of war. (Many northerners in the war, I am sure, supported less federal government involvement, some supported slavery, some people in Confederate states thought staying in the union was more important, etc.), but the decisions that lead to secession were made because of slavery, and the bulk of why the war happened comes pretty closely from slavery issues.

    You know ByMySword's reason for hanging his, and my step-dad also flies the same flag because to him it represents the South to him, of which he is proud, he is from West Virginia. I've known 4 or 5 people in my life that were from WV, including my grandfather, and none of them were as proud to be from WV as my step-dad is, but he chooses to fly the confederate flag rather than the West Virginian flag (I assume this is because you can't walkt into Wal*Mart and buy a WV flag in Texas).
    This is kind of ironic given the history of West Virginia, but that's how it goes I guess.

  10. #30
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexis View Post
    I agree that the flag holds many negative sentiments that considereing its once proud history is just wrong. I believe that all that MySword is trying to say is that its outrageous that people must see the negatives of this beuatiful symbol before looking to the history of it.

    I agree with MySword and I think all that he is trying to accomplish in this thread is that he is trying to point out that this symbol has a proud and lovely history to it. A history that should not be tarnished with the oponions of the uneducated and ignorantly blind.

    Now I do not condone racism or slavery, but I do feel that it was their own fault. Anybody who is even slightly educated knows the slaves where sold as such by their own people. So I do not think its right when such people want to blame the confederacy for it and not their own heritage.

    I personally think that the whole slavery thing was traggic yes, but an overall good thing. If it wasnt for the whiteman being willing to use such cheap labor and take them back to the americas then the black man would have never been in america. And thus never haveing the freedoms and rate of liveing they have now in this land of opprotunity. Now I dont think we should be thanked for it, thats stupid. But I do think it should be taken into account.

    So what im saying is that the whole slavery thing is their own fault, and just because it happened at the same time of the civil war is not a reason to take and tear apart the history of this beutiful symbol.
    It was their own fault?!?!?!?!

    You my dear, are racist, and ignorant to boot.

    Yes, there was something called a slave trade, yes there were African chieftans who captured, bartered and sold Africans, (often from rival tribes) as slaves, but how this translates to slavery being "their" fault, is galaxies beyond me?!?!?!?

    Reading your post makes me feel both really sad, and scared.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

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