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  1. #81
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    This.

    People with his combination of mental illness and arrest history are not supposed to be able to buy guns legally anyway, so there isn't any particular salvo in the gun rights debate inherent in this story. It also deserves mention that the congresswoman in question supports gun rights.
    He used a semi-automatic Glock pistol in the shooting I believe, for rapid fire. Which you can legally purchase in Arizona, with the loose laws that allow the purchase of weapons like that. So it does legitimately re-ignite the debate.

  2. #82
    Symbolic Herald Vasilisa's Avatar
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    *sigh*
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  3. #83
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vasilisa View Post
    *sigh*
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    I'm surprised all the focus has been on the old woman hero (and the 20 y/o intern), who messed with the gun magazine. And not the two guys who had already tackled him. The old lady helped to hold him down too. I guess it's just because she's old.

  4. #84
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    When Republicans and Bush were in power, it was the Left that was heated up, but we didn't shoot up a congresswoman. It's all about "both sides have to cool down" and "it's an equal thing on both sides right now".

    About this guy's politics, he was obviously anti-government (not left-wing), shot a Democrat, but also said some anti-God stuff (which you can have on the Right, sometimes).
    1.) Its not the 'right' that's characterizing its opponents as vitriolic bigots (such as with the sheriff of Tuscon's disgusting and unprofessional series of rants, a sentiment echoed by countless left-wing commentators), not only now but for the past two years. One person's vitriol is another person's truth-telling, it seems.

    2.) The people who knew him characterized his views as left-wing, and his reading habits are all over the place (Marx, Hitler, Rand, Orwell). Right-wingers are also not known for burning the American flag on youtube. He's also had some strange vendetta against the congresswoman he shot long before anyone ever heard of Sarah Palin and before the tea parties ever began. He's just a crazy bastard.

  5. #85
    Symbolic Herald Vasilisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    I'm surprised all the focus has been on the old woman hero (and the 20 y/o intern), who messed with the gun magazine. And not the two guys who had already tackled him. The old lady helped to hold him down too. I guess it's just because she's old.
    Or it could be because they aren't talking. And the article highlights the bravery of intern Daniel Hernandez Jr. and onlooker Joseph Zamudio as well.

    Maisch remembers that two men the Pima County Sheriff's Department has named as Roger Salzgeber and Bill D. Badger subdued the shooter. Salzgeber declined to comment, and Badger could not be located for comment.

    Those men are the heroes, Maisch said. She said she was hoping to remain quiet about her role until reporters flooded her with calls and visits.

    "I am not the brave one," Maisch said. "The people that jumped the guy were brave. I was very lucky that they were there."

    One of the two men who subdued the shooter had been grazed by a bullet to the head. Maisch had been kneeling on the shooter's ankles, but she ran for paper towels to make a compress for the injured man's wound.

    Also helping was Joseph Zamudio, 24, who was buying cigarettes at Walgreens when the shooting started. Zamudio was waiting for his debit card to clear when he heard the shots and ran outside, eventually helping to pin down the shooter.

    Tucson resident Joe Zamudio, with his dog Buddy, was one of the people that tackled the shooter that shot Rep. Gabrielle Giffords Saturday. Buddy was in the truck the whole time of the shooting yet became important as those at the scene kept petting him, using Buddy like a therapy dog, said Zamudio.
    Last edited by Vasilisa; 01-10-2011 at 02:11 PM. Reason: Buddy
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  6. #86
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    1.) Its not the 'right' that's characterizing its opponents as vitriolic bigots (such as with the sheriff of Tuscon's disgusting and unprofessional series of rants, a sentiment echoed by countless left-wing commentators), not only now but for the past two years. One person's vitriol is another person's truth-telling, it seems.

    2.) The people who knew him characterized his views as left-wing, and his reading habits are all over the place (Marx, Hitler, Rand, Orwell). Right-wingers are also not known for burning the American flag on youtube. He's also had some strange vendetta against the congresswoman he shot long before anyone ever heard of Sarah Palin and before the tea parties ever began. He's just a crazy bastard.
    It had something to do with the congresswoman and her "celebrity", something about her being fake. But on who is turning up the heat, whether if the Right is making some legit points within it, is the Right. And Arizona itself has its own history of right-wing heat, which is turned up even more now, mostly about immigration. And what about his involvement with American Renaissance? I know AmRen has denied any involvement with him, but maybe he was just a fanboy of them. And you have Tea Party people talking about "2nd Amendment solutions" if voting doesn't work out, and support for her saying that, along with similar statements. That doesn't help.

  7. #87
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    He used a semi-automatic Glock pistol in the shooting I believe, for rapid fire. Which you can legally purchase in Arizona, with the loose laws that allow the purchase of weapons like that. So it does legitimately re-ignite the debate.
    The point being that this guy was not supposed to be able to buy guns legally in the first place (though it probably wouldn't have made much of a difference, except for the timing).

  8. #88
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    The point being that this guy was not supposed to be able to buy guns legally in the first place (though it probably wouldn't have made much of a difference, except for the timing).
    They are thinking someone else bought it, whether they bought it for him or he just took it. But it's an easy gun to buy in Arizona. If this was another state, a semi-auto rapid fire gun might not have been used. And maybe you would have less deaths.

  9. #89
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    But on who is turning up the heat, whether if the Right is making some legit points within it, is the Right.

    And you have Tea Party people talking about "2nd Amendment solutions" if voting doesn't work out, and support for her saying that, along with similar statements.
    1.) Like you said originally, it was the left back when Bush was President; that's how things usually work. The left's demonization of opponents has been somewhat calmer (until it became apparent that they were going to lose the mid-terms badly) while they controlled government, but no less extreme in content.

    2.) That specific comment (which is hardly the same thing as using gun or hunting metaphors in general) was out of line, and it hurt Angle politically. Criticizing Palin for putting the congresswoman in the metaphorical cross-hairs is just absurd, particularly as Daily Kos did pretty much the same thing back in 2008.

  10. #90
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    1.) Like you said originally, it was the left back when Bush was President; that's how things usually work. The left's demonization of opponents has been somewhat calmer (until it became apparent that they were going to lose the mid-terms badly) while they controlled government, but no less extreme in content.

    2.) That specific comment (which is hardly the same thing as using gun or hunting metaphors in general) was out of line, and it hurt Angle politically. Criticizing Palin for putting the congresswoman in the metaphorical cross-hairs is just absurd, particularly as Daily Kos did pretty much the same thing back in 2008.
    I actually think the Left's demonization of Bush, especially after Iraq, was more vivid and pointed than even the Right can get. The only difference is that you have more gun nuts on the Right.

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