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  1. #51
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelric View Post
    I think just the use of the word "drugs", as if they're equivalent simply muddies the debate. Inevitably substances that can be and are used responsibly (including alcohol, tobacco, caffeine, and even marijuana) are associated with the methamphetamines, cracks, and PCP's of the world. It's simply not the same argument.
    That's the point I was making, although I'll be honest that I wouldnt include marijuana in the same category as alcohol, tobacco and caffine.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    What criteria do you use, if any, to group all "drugs" together (yet separately from other mind altering substances) that doesn't have to do with their legality?
    Like I said its a game of semantics, which started really quickly, and pretty much just goes to show the mindset of a drug, is a drug, is a drug and its all good which I was talking about.

  3. #53
    Senior Member captain curmudgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Tentatively, I think I would.
    agreed.




    Also, there are many functioning pot-smokers out there. I'm one of them, depending on your definition of functioning. I suppose iI'm half-functional? Half-functional would be rather appropriate (and ironic) seeing as i have a spinal birth-defect and my legs don't work properly...but I digress. The reasons why you haven't come across said users may vary widely.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Well, I think it should all be decriminalized.
    I'd actually be a bit concerned about decriminalization of harder drugs, although I'm not necessarily completely against it.

    It would have to be done right, and include mandatory treatment for those who are caught; but I just don't know how such a system would have any real teeth to it.

    Admittedly, though, I haven't really read enough about the ideas.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    But I don't know what else you have in mind.
    You could make it legal to use and grow a certain amount of pot, but not legal to produce en masse or distribute.

    The best you'd probably get, though, is an increase in the level of individual pot-growing, and a slight-to-moderate reduction in larger scale operations.

  5. #55
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Honestly, though, drug use wasn't always the way it is now. But nothing was the same after the industrial revolution.
    Yeah, I've heard that, its not the substances its the mass production or mass consumption that's the rub, or its any number of the old temperance league arguments against alcohol recycled and suggested as the view of contemporary drugs naysayers, like its a vice of the working classes, ruin of the governing classes, death of the middle classes whatever.

    There's a serious difference between then and that issue and now and the drugs issue, legal prohibition was folly not because of enforcement or widespread failure to comply with the law, it was folly because if there where the temperance views widespread enough to legislate the legislation wasnt necessary was it?

    The difference now is that there's widespread acceptance of drug use, so pretty much, it would appear, the only obsticles to a wholesale societal tunning in, turning on, dropping out is exist laws preventing it, I dont even hear the pretty machavellian "I wouldnt ever but others should be able to (because I'm gonna sell to them)" arguments so much anymore.

    That's why I reckon people shouldnt piss around with arguments about prohibitive laws, instead they should consider is this thing right or wrong.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    That's why I reckon people...should consider is this thing right or wrong.
    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNbExvU42q4"][/YOUTUBE]

  7. #57
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I'd actually be a bit concerned about decriminalization of harder drugs, although I'm not necessarily completely against it.
    There where scots ministers who made persuasive cases for buying existing opium crops in nations like Afghanistan, with provisos about year on year substitution of other crops and then processing the opium and dispensing it to UK addicts on prescription. Its actually something I have more support for if its kept under review, and serves the different purposes well without either incentivising the mass production of the stuff or contributes to a growing population of chronic addicts.

    The problem which I know with schemes like this, they tried it in the eighties in the UK just didnt shout about it, is that they've found no one ever uses it as an opportunity to get straightened out and change their life around, they just get comfortable with their habit, maybe keep some of their prescription over to sell and use the money for a different sort of drug that week or reattend claiming they've been robbed or lost it but need to feed the habit, all of which contributes to the black market and same problems its meant to be making history.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNbExvU42q4"][/YOUTUBE]
    Right, alright, forget I bothered saying anything...

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    There where scots ministers who made persuasive cases for buying existing opium crops in nations like Afghanistan, with provisos about year on year substitution of other crops and then processing the opium and dispensing it to UK addicts on prescription. Its actually something I have more support for if its kept under review, and serves the different purposes well without either incentivising the mass production of the stuff or contributes to a growing population of chronic addicts.

    The problem which I know with schemes like this, they tried it in the eighties in the UK just didnt shout about it, is that they've found no one ever uses it as an opportunity to get straightened out and change their life around, they just get comfortable with their habit, maybe keep some of their prescription over to sell and use the money for a different sort of drug that week or reattend claiming they've been robbed or lost it but need to feed the habit, all of which contributes to the black market and same problems its meant to be making history.
    Yeah, that'd be one of my concerns trying to implement something like that.

    It's just hard to actually manage society that well... there will always be cracks in the system that will be exploited by pieces of shit... and this type seems like a breeding ground for such problems.

  10. #60
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    I know there's such a thing as a functioning alcoholic (not that they are great) but is there such a thing as a functioning pot head?

    When I say functioning, what I mean is, they go to their 9-5 job high on marijuana daily and are able to keep the job. They also keep their home/personal life in acceptable order.

    I'm just asking because I don't know any people to personally observe like this and I am genuinely curious. All the people who I know who smoke marijuana daily can't keep a job, but perhaps that is for other reasons.

    The purpose of this question is not to slam anyone who smokes pot but to gauge how functional they are. I have no problem with recreational smoking. In fact, where I live here in california, starting in the new year, they have made it so that you only get fined $100 and an infraction (used to be a misdeamenor) if you get caught with an ounce or less of marijuana on you.

    Still, I'm not sure I'd want even that showing on my record. Just like I wouldn't want a DUI showing on my record. Employers don't like either one.

    Anyways, please educate me.
    The first distinction to make is that just as there is recreational drinking (in many forms and amounts) and alcoholism, there is different ways to use marijuana.

    You need to make the distinction between someone who drinks every day who downs a fifth of vodka and someone who has a glass of wine after work. In the same way, you need to make the distinction between someone who takes massive bong rips (and gets "trashed") and someone who smokes a small bowl or even a just a few hits.

    I'd also point out that functioning alcoholics don't necessarily show up to work drunk (they may get drunk after), so saying they are high at work may not be an apples to apples comparison.


    All this said, I know many many examples of motivated students and athletes who use marijuana frequently. I know a few personal examples of people who use marijuana who are much older than I am and have successful careers, but I don't know how frequently or how much they smoke. I also know a few who aren't in such good shape.

    I've also met a lot of dirtbags who are way too proud to proclaim that they have "been chiefin' everyday since [they were] 16" (like it's a badge of honor) and are a damn mess. These people are typically self-medicating and may have some serious problems they should address such as anxiety or depression.

    Something important to note is the local "weed culture." I've noticed that in some places (or among certain groups) the use of marijuana is just something people do - it's not really anything special, although people like to try different strains in the same way people like to try different kinds of beer. In other areas or with different groups there is this whole "yea yea smoke weed ereday YO MARY JANE4LYFE" mentality. And naturally, not only is the latter group is obnoxious, but they are the ones who tend to be the ones who can't hold a job. The former group are as varied as any other group but are otherwise regular folks.


    I am strongly in favor of the legalization of marijuana and possibly other drugs, but marijuana especially. I used to do it occasionally but don't any more really. My experience is it is a safe drug for the typical person to use, simple as that.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

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