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  1. #31
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Oh yes alcohol is a drug, worse than a lot of the illicit ones, and I hate it just like the rest.

    It wins me few friends to say this, but if i thought making drugs illegal (alcohol included) worked I'd be for it, I'd make it happen if I could. But after a certain point of examining the subject, I came to the conclusion that things actually seem to be more problematic when drugs are illegal than when they are legal. If you hate drugs, it's actually more in your interest to legalize them.

    And this seems to be one of the things you always have a hard time with, Lark. You assume that if you take a moral stance, then the best thing to do is to legislate that stance as literally as possible. That's not realistic. Society and the role law has in it is very complicated. It's best to examine the likely consequences of a policy and select the one that gets the result you want, even if that means something counter-intuitive like legalizing drugs to make them less harmful.

    Of course the other thing is that every problem actually ties into so many other problems that you usually have to make some kind of compromise. Everything has some cost, and some benefit, and you have to make the comparison and decide which benefits are worth the accompanying cost. I see a lack of this in regards to the so-called war in drugs. Cost-benefit analysis does not reflect on throwing pot smokers in jail very well.

    Finally, Lark, you have had a problem of not providing your rationale for a lot of stances. What's confounding is that you seem to be less likely to provide rationale the more strongly you take a stance. So when it comes to drugs, or homosexuality, you can fight it forever, employing everything but an explanation of why you've taken the stance that you have. That isn't going to help anyone. Not you, and not the people you talk to.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Oh yes alcohol is a drug, worse than a lot of the illicit ones, and I hate it just like the rest.
    See, I can actually respect that opinion, cuz at least it's consistent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I wins me few friends to say this, but if i thought making drugs illegal (alcohol included) worked I'd be for it, I'd make it happen if I could. But after a certain point of examining the subject, I came to the conclusion that things actually seem to be more problematic when drugs are illegal than when they are legal. If you hate drugs, it's actually more in your interest to legalize them.

    And this seems to be one of the things you always have a hard time with, Lark. You assume that if you take a moral stance, then the best thing to do is to legislate that stance as literally as possible. That's not realistic. Society and the role law has in it is very complicated. It's best to examine the likely consequences of a policy and select the one that gets the result you want, even if that means something counter-intuitive like legalizing drugs to make them less harmful.

    Of course the other thing is that every problem actually ties into so many other problems that you usually have to make some kind of compromise. Everything has some cost, and some benefit, and you have to make the comparison and decide which benefits are worth the accompanying cost. I see a lack of this in regards to the so-called war in drugs. Cost-benefit analysis does not reflect on throwing pot smokers in jail very well.
    But, even better, despite your moral presentiments, you still arrive at the right analysis/conclusion.

    +3

  3. #33
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    I know there's such a thing as a functioning alcoholic (not that they are great) but is there such a thing as a functioning pot head?

    When I say functioning, what I mean is, they go to their 9-5 job high on marijuana daily and are able to keep the job. They also keep their home/personal life in acceptable order.

    I'm just asking because I don't know any people to personally observe like this and I am genuinely curious. All the people who I know who smoke marijuana daily can't keep a job, but perhaps that is for other reasons.

    The purpose of this question is not to slam anyone who smokes pot but to gauge how functional they are. I have no problem with recreational smoking. In fact, where I live here in california, starting in the new year, they have made it so that you only get fined $100 and an infraction (used to be a misdeamenor) if you get caught with an ounce or less of marijuana on you.

    Still, I'm not sure I'd want even that showing on my record. Just like I wouldn't want a DUI showing on my record. Employers don't like either one.

    Anyways, please educate me.

  4. #34
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Again I dont think there's equivalence.

    Likewise I wouldnt suggest that either alcohol or caffine are harmless but like I say there's not equivalence between them and what I would consider drugs.
    What criteria do you use, if any, to group all "drugs" together (yet separately from other mind altering substances) that doesn't have to do with their legality?
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  5. #35
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    I know there's such a thing as a functioning alcoholic (not that they are great) but is there such a thing as a functioning pot head?

    When I say functioning, what I mean is, they go to their 9-5 job high on marijuana daily and are able to keep the job. They also keep their home/personal life in acceptable order.

    I'm just asking because I don't know any people to personally observe like this and I am genuinely curious. All the people who I know who smoke marijuana daily can't keep a job, but perhaps that is for other reasons.

    The purpose of this question is not to slam anyone who smokes pot but to gauge how functional they are. I have no problem with recreational smoking. In fact, where I live here in california, starting in the new year, they have made it so that you only get fined $100 and an infraction (used to be a misdeamenor) if you get caught with an ounce or less of marijuana on you.

    Still, I'm not sure I'd want even that showing on my record. Just like I wouldn't want a DUI showing on my record. Employers don't like either one.

    Anyways, please educate me.
    I have a proposition. Why don't we change the criteria for "alcoholic" or "pot head" to include a clause of non-functionality in one or more areas of that individual's life. That way we always know who the alcoholics and genuine pot heads are, and we don't accidentally accuse anyone of being these bad things without knowing for sure whether or not they need help. Why tread an ambiguous grey area, why leave them in limbo? Why play it off, and why weigh the pros and cons of the use trying to justify a legitimate flaw in that person?

    Daily use is obviously not always a sign of a disorder, so don't pretend it is.

  6. #36
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    I have a proposition. Why don't we change the criteria for "alcoholic" or "pot head" to include a clause of non-functionality in one or more areas of that individual's life. That way we always know who the alcoholics and genuine pot heads are, and we don't accidentally accuse anyone of being these bad things without knowing for sure whether or not they need help. Why tread an ambiguous grey area, why leave them in limbo? Why play it off, and why weigh the pros and cons of the use trying to justify a legitimate flaw in that person?

    Daily use is obviously not always a sign of a disorder, so don't pretend it is.
    Great. Go ahead and write it up. Make it a real Proposition. Afterwards we can have a democratic vote on it.

  7. #37
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Are we all going to Washington now?
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  8. #38
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Yippie!

  9. #39
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    When exactly was drug use not widely accepted? From alcohol to laudnum it the 19th and early 20th centuries to the cocaine in the original Coca-Cola to the prescription of speed and valium to house wives and teenagers by doctors in the 50's and 60's...drug use has always been acceptable. Society just likes to play games with which drugs those are.

    Like during prohibition of alcohol marijuana was still legal and laudnum was widely used for medicinal purposes..

    Sometimes I swear you're an SJ, Lark.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    Great. Go ahead and write it up. Make it a real Proposition. Afterwards we can have a democratic vote on it.
    Have you seen the people that vote? I would never let my work be sullied by such a ridiculous practice.

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