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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Fischer-tropsch = Expensive
    Renewables = Expensive
    Nuclear = Expensive
    Produced Oil = Expensive (eventually)

    Take your pick. As ever, one will be the cheapest and that will be the most prevalent.

    Water will also be an issue.

    I'm more worried about certain irreplaceable/function specific metals.
    Quote Originally Posted by Qlippoth View Post
    ^^^^ This is why I think we'll move to solar in the end once the storage/distribution/efficiency tech gets there. The sun puts out excess energy that isn't used, and all it will require is surface area. It's what life runs on already.
    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    1. Peak oil rings too much like all the other global catastrophes I've heard about for me to get my dander up about it. If I worried about every asteroid, chemical or nuclear holocaust, etc. I would have killed myself a long time ago. I think this type of fear is typical of people who feel suspicion about the larger world. And those who feel a need to control their environment.

    2. It seems plausible. That's the problem with all these things. They always SEEM plausible. Who knows. Maybe it is. The fact is, you can't do a damn thing about it. So, sha na na nana. Live for today. And just trust that tomorrow you'll be okay, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    We will run out of oil this century.

    If we don't get our (US) energy portfolio diversified... the world is going to be in for one hell of a ride when the wars for the last puddles of the stuff erupt.
    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Good thing I'm an American and don't live in the Malthusian nightmare that is the third world. They're really the ones who will be fucked. Americans will have to perhaps turn off the A/C at night.

    Fortress America forever.

    *bows head in thanksgiving for the birth lottery*
    Quote Originally Posted by Tantive View Post
    Abiotic theory and running out of oil is irrelevant, all wells follow a bellcurve. This is true for supply of the world as well. Peak oil is when our demands collide with available and extractable supply.
    This means its the end of Cheap oil. Market forces, supply demand. It all gets incredibly expensive from there, the most notable things being electricity, food and heating.

    Let me remind you, THERES IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR OIL ...with our current worlds infrastructure. Nuclear, Solar, Wind NO......NOTHING! It takes at least 20 years to transform our infrastructure. We haven't even begun a real effort in this. Fact is, we are too late.
    One should try to disengage from dependency of that infrastructure as much as possible, so you don't get buttspanked later on.
    The trend is growing, food gardens, house proofing, life style changes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tantive View Post
    A partial list of products made from Petroleum (144 of 6000 items)

    One 42-gallon barrel of oil creates 19.4 gallons of gasoline. The rest (over half) is used to make things like:

    Solvents, Diesel fuel,Motor Oil,Bearing Grease,Ink,Floor Wax,Ballpoint Pens,Football Cleats,Upholstery,Sweaters,Boats,Insecticides,Bicy cle Tires,Sports Car Bodies,Nail Polish,Fishing lures,Dresses,Tires,Golf Bags,Perfumes,Cassettes,Dishwasher parts,Tool Boxes,Shoe Polish,Motorcycle Helmet,Caulking,Petroleum Jelly,Transparent Tape,CD Player,Faucet Washers,Antiseptics,Clothesline,Curtains,Food Preservatives,Basketballs,Soap,Vitamin Capsules,Antihistamines,Purses,Shoes,Dashboards,Co rtisone,Deodorant,Footballs,
    Putty,Dyes,Panty Hose,Refrigerant,Percolators,Life Jackets,Rubbing Alcohol,Linings,Skis,TV Cabinets,Shag Rugs,Electrician's Tape,Tool Racks,Car Battery Cases,Epoxy,Paint,Mops,Slacks,Insect Repellent,Oil Filters,Umbrellas,Yarn,Fertilizers,Hair Coloring,Roofing,Toilet Seats,Fishing Rods,Lipstick,Denture Adhesive,Linoleum,Ice Cube Trays,Synthetic Rubber,Speakers,Plastic Wood,Electric Blankets,Glycerin,Tennis Rackets,Rubber ,Cement,Fishing Boots,Dice,Nylon Rope,Candles,Trash Bags,House Paint,Water Pipes,Hand Lotion,Roller Skates,Surf Boards,Shampoo,Wheels,Paint Rollers,Shower Curtains,Guitar Strings,Luggage,Aspirin,Safety Glasses,Antifreeze,Football Helmets,
    Awnings,Eyeglasses,Clothes,Toothbrushes,Ice Chests,Footballs,Combs,CD's & DVD's,Paint Brushes,Detergents,Vaporizers,Balloons,Sun Glasses,Tents,Heart Valves,Crayons,Parachutes,Telephones,Enamel,Pillow s,Dishes,Cameras,Anesthetics,Artificial Turf,Artificial limbs,Bandages,Dentures,Model Cars,Folding Doors,Hair Curlers,Cold cream,Movie film,Soft Contact lenses,Drinking Cups,Fan Belts,Car Enamel,Shaving Cream,Ammonia,Refrigerators,Golf Balls,Toothpaste,Gasoline
    To be honest, this is what concerned me when I was in high school and first started thinking about this shit.

    Energy is actually the less disconcerting side of the issue, if you ask me.

    It's really all about the shit that we use every single day lives that is derived from petroleum.

    Fuck, this laptop I'm using probably has over 100 different things that came from petroleum.

    Imagine how much the price of computer would increase if we hit peak oil.

    Imagine how much the price of all these things would increase.

    It's not simply about the non-availability of these products, or whether we'll be able to use substitute ingredients.

    It's about how much less efficiently will we be able to produce all these things that are currently made from petroleum.

    That's the disconcerting side of the issue, if you ask me.

    Energy will be a significant issue in and of itself, but we will have alternatives ready to go.

    How many products will we have much more difficulty producing once oil is gone? Or significantly more expensive?

    When you really think about it, it almost seems like oil has been the single greatest enabler of all our economic growth.

    Without it, what's gunna happen?



    Whatever ends up going down, I won't count out the possibility that human ingenuity and innovation will come up with substitutes.

    It won't be easy, and we might go through a lot of pain, but I ain't gunna freak out about it just yet, when it might not come for a long time, and it might not even be all that bad, if and when it does happen.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Simply adopt an authoritarian government to implement the process, then overthrow it later. It has been done many times in the past, I see no reason why it would be non-feasible this time around.
    Interesting, would you be willing to sacrifice yourself and loved ones for the transition periods?

  3. #33
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    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImV1voi41YY"]M King Hubbert in 1976[/YOUTUBE]

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    As to what could happen next, I loved this film which seeks to put everything together with an engaging narrative. If you've got a bit of time to spare, I recommend this watch
    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuBgzwSBcuw"]Collapse[/YOUTUBE]

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tantive View Post
    Interesting, would you be willing to sacrifice yourself and loved ones for the transition periods?
    I wouldn't be willing to sacrifice anyone. Whatever happens is going to be largely out of my control. I merely pose a viable solution that has worked in similar circumstances.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    I wouldn't be willing to sacrifice anyone. Whatever happens is going to be largely out of my control. I merely pose a viable solution that has worked in similar circumstances.
    Is it still viable if the scenario poses circumstances which would normally not occur by choice?

    A post peak oil scenario actually happend after the collapse of the soviet union. One interest which fascinated me were the solutions Cuba and North Korea presented, both starkly different.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tantive View Post
    As to what could happen next, I loved this film which seeks to put everything together with an engaging narrative. If you've got a bit of time to spare, I recommend this watch
    I liked that movie too, but I hope you realize that Michael Ruppert isn't that well in the head.

    He's part crazy, part pretty-well-informed-and-understandably-concerned.

  8. #38
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    Anything should be taken with a grain of salt and a critical eye ofcourse, but I'de rather judge the information then the person

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tantive View Post
    Anything should be taken with a grain of salt and a critical eye ofcourse, but I'de rather judge the information then the person
    Unfortunately, when someone's giving you their narrative as to how a bunch of evidence fits together and what it means, who they are is inextricably linked to that narrative.

    If Michael Ruppert is a total crackpot, that means what he's saying is inaccurate, wrong, misleading, distortionary, etc.

    If Michael Ruppert is not at all a crackpot, that means what he's saying is accurate, right, pointing in the right direction, representative, etc.

    He lies somewhere in between those two, and where you believe he lies on that spectrum is inextricably connected to what you think about the accuracy of his narrative.

    All too often, you see people (on here and irl) making claims that show that they don't realize that who we are is connected to the information we believe, espouse, proclaim, etc.

    That's why argumenta ad hominem are not necessarily serious logical fallacies, and don't necessarily make one's argument any less accurate.

    If someone's arguing with you that touching a child sexually is not inappropriate, well, guess what, if they happen to be a child molester, that is not irrelevant information.

    And pointing out that they what they believe because they are a child molester is not an ineffective, misguided, or illogical argument.

    It's precisely the reason why they believe what they believe!

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    If Michael Ruppert is a total crackpot, that means what he's saying is inaccurate, wrong, misleading, distortionary, etc.

    If Michael Ruppert is not at all a crackpot, that means what he's saying is accurate, right, pointing in the right direction, representative, etc.
    Thats not neccesairely true, hence I'de rather make judgements on the information from origin and validity...and find plausability in the arguments made...rather then the character. However Ruppert tends to back things up with actual documentation in his arguments, but that was not the point of the movie to provide you with such, rather then sparking dialogue in yourself and others.
    Regardless, the movie was a good watch ..regardless of what one thinks of the man

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