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View Poll Results: Do you think passing this legislation will truly help?

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27. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, I think it's a step in the right direction.

    14 51.85%
  • Yes, but it's only the tip of what really needs to be done.

    10 37.04%
  • No, this this repeal is gilded.

    0 0%
  • I don't care either way if it's repealed or not.

    3 11.11%
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Results 21 to 30 of 54

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasper View Post
    Naturally you hold this view because there's evidence to back it up, like you know, military forces that allow gays to openly serve having crippling legal actions and a real issue with morale?

    I can tell you I sure noticed it in the Australian Army, not a day went by where people apathetically did not care about other soldier's sexualities while the defence force legal eagles struggled to keep up with the never ending law suits that didn't come through.

    There are two soldiers: Good and bad, everything else is moot. IMO a soldier, as with a civilian, has the right to be homophobic, racist, sexist or a bigot, but the legal system should not support their discrimination at the expense of another person's rights to equal treatment.
    What do you mean by "openly serve"?

    I know that gay identity is this whole other thing comprising myriad conflicts and complexes whereas most heterosexuals just experience that orientation and get on with their lives, never marching about it, partying about it or requiring a whole series of reinforcement, encouragement, support or anything like that remain convinced of themselves. Is that what you mean? Sorry but could be difficult to fight a war if it interfers with pink tuesdays and a parade around the destroyers deck to provide sufficient evidence of support of a particular sexual orientation or sexual behaviour.

    Then what if despite every single rule and regulation to the contrary someone fails to make someone feel accepted because of the private details of their private lives? The forces going to be protected against all the lawsuits that could be mobilised in that inevitable scenario?

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasper View Post
    Because 9 out of 10 biologists will tell us that gay parents breed gay children.
    Lies, damn lies and statistics.

  3. #23

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    When I consider it I shouldnt even have bothered posting, this is a troll thread with the title like "homophobia or sexual repression", its like saying "bad thing or really bad thing".

  4. #24
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Here's a few of the nations that have open service, where sexual orientation doesn't matter:

    Australia
    Austria
    Belgium
    Canada
    Czech Republic
    Denmark
    Estonia
    Finland
    France
    Germany
    Ireland
    Israel
    Italy
    Lithuania
    Luxembourg
    Netherlands
    New Zealand
    Norway
    Slovenia
    South Africa
    Spain
    Sweden
    Switzerland
    UK
    Uruguay

    Most did studies on the pre and post conditions. Israel, per its size, maybe the best military in the world, was one of the first to do it (i think).

    In America, not much would change, just less otherwise qualified troops leaving service. The Marines, in the survey, even tho there was broad support for ending DADT, were the most wary. But most troops commented on the negative morale effect of when a soldier in their unit, with no wounds, leaves them.

  5. #25
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    When I consider it I shouldnt even have bothered posting, this is a troll thread with the title like "homophobia or sexual repression", its like saying "bad thing or really bad thing".
    You're the only one in here with a bug up their ass. Your homophobia is unbearable, even US soldiers are saying they don't think gay soldiers are an issue, it's a minority who do and seeing as you're the one saying minorities shouldn't be protected then why should the homophobes be pandered to?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    What do you mean by "openly serve"?
    Just that. They can be open about their sexuality, have their partnership legally recognised, have their next of kin be their partner so if something happens to them they will be kept up to date, they will be able to have their partner considered when taking a posting and housing arrangements made suitable and so on and so on. Normal stuff that straight soldiers take for granted.

    I know that gay identity is this whole other thing comprising myriad conflicts and complexes whereas most heterosexuals just experience that orientation and get on with their lives, never marching about it, partying about it or requiring a whole series of reinforcement, encouragement, support or anything like that remain convinced of themselves. Is that what you mean? Sorry but could be difficult to fight a war if it interfers with pink tuesdays and a parade around the destroyers deck to provide sufficient evidence of support of a particular sexual orientation or sexual behaviour.
    You don't know much, you presume. Plenty of heterosexuals do all that, only because they're not a minority it's just called normal day to day activities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Then what if despite every single rule and regulation to the contrary someone fails to make someone feel accepted because of the private details of their private lives? The forces going to be protected against all the lawsuits that could be mobilised in that inevitable scenario?
    Check out what happened in other countries when gay soldiers were allowed to serve openly, your fear campaign is a load of crap with nothing to back it up.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Fan.of.Devin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Yeah, everyone who doesnt see it your way is a neurotic or has issues, its really not you its them.
    Damn straight.

    If [one] hate[s] and/or look[s] down upon homosexuals as inferior, then [one is] fucked up and there's something wrong with [one]. Simple as that.
    Sorry to be the one to inform [one] (though I'm sure I'm not).

    I'm intolerant of intolerance.
    Last edited by Ivy; 12-19-2010 at 12:40 PM. Reason: made the specific general
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  7. #27
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont need to live in Gaysville USA. With any luck the inability to reproduce or repress heterosexuality will end it in a couple of generations tops.
    Will end what?

  8. #28
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont know what rights you're talking about here, what especial rights are they being denied or do they need different from the heterosexual majority?
    So to bring you up to speed, what we're discussing here is "don't ask don't tell", a legislation introduced which, in very rough summary:

    -forbids gay people from joining the military unless everyone else in the military is completely unaware that they are gay
    -if they are in the military and it's found out that they are gay, they're automatically dismissed from the military, regardless of their past service (e.g. they can't ever talk about their spouse, etc)
    -this happens even if they didn't personally tell anyone, and someone finds out another way
    -in an attempt to make it "fair", the military isn't allowed to ask about sexuality either
    -I'm pretty sure their partners don't get the millitary spousal benefits, either (regardless of whether they're able to be/are legally married)

    In other words, the right they are denied is that of serving in the military for the service of their country, and all the (considerable) side benefits associated with joining the military.
    -end of thread-

  9. #29
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post

    -in an attempt to make it "fair", the military isn't allowed to ask about sexuality either
    -I'm pretty sure their partners don't get the (considerable) military spousal benefits, either (regardless of whether they're able to be/are legally married)

    In other words, the right they are denied is that of serving in the military for the service of their country, and all the (considerable) side benefits associated with joining the military.
    In practice, the military can and did "ask" if someone was gay; the bar was pretty low for what could trigger "asking..." mere rumor was enough.

    As far as spousal benefits, DOMA (Defense of Marriage Act) prevents the US federal government from giving marital or spousal benefits to same sex couples (even when married on the state level), so things like relocation costs for spouses still won't be legally covered (See here for more on DOMA and the repeal of DADT.) There's a chance DOMA might be struck down as unconsitutional, but that's far from certain given the current composition of the Supreme Count.

    The repeal of DADT has around 80% support on opinion polls in the US, which is unusually high for a controversial policy.

  10. #30
    Senior Member FakePlasticAlice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'm a democrat, aswell as a socialist, so I generally think that the individuals being asked to make sacrifices and expend especial personal resources should have a greater say in decisions effecting them than random others so I could understand why a group of soldiers would wish to exclude or include homosexuals from their battle groups, they may be perturbed about a close fraternal bond, the kind associated with individuals being willing to sacrifice their very lives for one another, being misconstrued as sexual attraction or affection .
    Yes, because i know i would join the military, fight for my country and my beliefs all so i can throw my life away because i may have an attraction to someone? Just as well as if my life was saved by someone of the opposite sex..i wouldn't believe it had anything to do with all of us fighting on the same team, fighting for our country, fighting the "bad guys" ...i would ever so egotistically believe that it had to do with a "crush".That's (pardon my french) F*cking ABSURD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I know that gay identity is this whole other thing comprising myriad conflicts and complexes whereas most heterosexuals just experience that orientation and get on with their lives, never marching about it, partying about it or requiring a whole series of reinforcement, encouragement, support or anything like that remain convinced of themselves. Is that what you mean? Sorry but could be difficult to fight a war if it interfers with pink tuesdays and a parade around the destroyers deck to provide sufficient evidence of support of a particular sexual orientation or sexual behaviour.
    So women never should have marched for their rights? So blacks never should have spoken up for their rights? They should have just said to themselves "well if the people that are being treated as superior to us don't do it..then why should we?"....BECAUSE THEY HAD TO! But i'm sure you know how ridiculous it is to insinuate during times of war that homosexuals would break apart from their team to do such things... That it isn't about life and death and good vs bad and all that stuff... That homosexuals don't have a level head enough to put their minority issues behind them and fight the good fight... or maybe that's the problem.. you really don't know how ridiculous you sound! (apart from how extremely homophobic you are). Just because homosexuals want to be treated equally by the military doesn't mean they want to have gay parades in Iraq!


    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Whatever. I dont need to live in Gaysville USA. With any luck the inability to reproduce or repress heterosexuality will end it in a couple of generations tops.
    As you continue to post in this thread you only disassemble your argument by being ever more overtly homophobic. This thread, which could have been an interesting and informative discussion has turned into a jumble f*ck.

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