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View Poll Results: Do you think passing this legislation will truly help?

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27. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, I think it's a step in the right direction.

    14 51.85%
  • Yes, but it's only the tip of what really needs to be done.

    10 37.04%
  • No, this this repeal is gilded.

    0 0%
  • I don't care either way if it's repealed or not.

    3 11.11%
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Results 11 to 20 of 54

  1. #11
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    So you're in favour of the legislation about sexuality being struck down, then. Right on.
    I'd have to know what that meant, to be honest with a few exceptions for the protection of animals and children from abuse its not something that requires policing. Equally it doesnt deserve official recognition, support, endorsement, sponsorship deals, a profile or any of those things.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fan.of.Devin View Post
    Such as?
    Planes are going to fall out of the sky 'n shit because gay military members will be able to admit that they're gay whilst serving?
    You live in an interesting world.

    Also, not understanding how this qualifies as "gay advocacy"; it is the removal of an imbalance in personal liberty, not some sort of affirmative action.
    Removal of an imbalance of personal liberty? And what imbalance would that be? It is affirmative action and I consider all profiling and pushing of the gay agenda to be just that and its probably the reason I'm so opposed to it given that it remains a minority orientation and all too frequently is a flag of convenience for individuals struggling with all kinds of other problems with they pass off as membership within an ostrachised minority group.

    Your first point is patently ridiculous and far removed from anything I would suggest, which I'm sure you also know, though I suppose that kind of thing suffices in the abscence of a decent point of discussion.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Fan.of.Devin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity
    So you're in favour of the legislation about sexuality being struck down, then. Right on.
    I'd have to know what that meant, to be honest with a few exceptions for the protection of animals and children from abuse its not something that requires policing. Equally it doesnt deserve official recognition, support, endorsement, sponsorship deals, a profile or any of those things.
    Do you even know what Don't Ask, Don't Tell is?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Removal of an imbalance of personal liberty? And what imbalance would that be?
    The ability to be kicked out of the military by virtue of being gay...? Whereas one does can not be kicked out of the military for being straight.
    herp derp
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fan.of.Devin View Post
    Do you even know what Don't Ask, Don't Tell is?

    The ability to be kicked out of the military by virtue of being gay...? Whereas one does can not be kicked out of the military for being straight.
    herp derp
    I'm a democrat, aswell as a socialist, so I generally think that the individuals being asked to make sacrifices and expend especial personal resources should have a greater say in decisions effecting them than random others so I could understand why a group of soldiers would wish to exclude or include homosexuals from their battle groups, they may be perturbed about a close fraternal bond, the kind associated with individuals being willing to sacrifice their very lives for one another, being misconstrued as sexual attraction or affection.

    There are a lot of stupid things thrown into this debate, not least of which there are a lot of bitter attempts at ridicule of what one or the other side of the discussion may suppose the others views are, your previous post is one example, I dont think that's helpful to a real and meaningful discussion on what is going to be best for the military and service men and women.

    I'm sorry but this again to me appears like an attempt at grievance finding by a certain set and subset of political agitators rather than a serious dialogue of any sort, the military are probably extremely sensible to be taking a blanket ban approach to it as a consequence, otherwise they could be inviting individuals with real deep seated problems to enter the ranks and just launch one after another of crippling legal actions because they feel disatisfied with how they are being treated.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Fan.of.Devin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'm a democrat, aswell as a socialist, so I generally think that the individuals being asked to make sacrifices and expend especial personal resources should have a greater say in decisions effecting them than random others so I could understand why a group of soldiers would wish to exclude or include homosexuals from their battle groups, they may be perturbed about a close fraternal bond, the kind associated with individuals being willing to sacrifice their very lives for one another, being misconstrued as sexual attraction or affection.
    That argument failed against racial integration and gender integration, just as it it has now finally failed against sexual integration.
    Not being comfortable around any given group of people, be it blacks/women/Jews/gays/whatever, is the neurotic fault that these individuals in question choose to harbor; try and paint it any way you want, but the reality is that homophobes are the ones with the problem, NOT homosexuals.
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  6. #16
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'd have to know what that meant, to be honest with a few exceptions for the protection of animals and children from abuse its not something that requires policing. Equally it doesnt deserve official recognition, support, endorsement, sponsorship deals, a profile or any of those things.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    the military are probably extremely sensible to be taking a blanket ban approach to it as a consequence, otherwise they could be inviting individuals with real deep seated problems to enter the ranks and just launch one after another of crippling legal actions because they feel disatisfied with how they are being treated.
    Oh boy, I'm getting whiplash here. So you're actually for legislation about sexuality now? I guess the important thing is making sure gay people don't get any rights, of course, so introducing legislation to take rights away is ok.
    -end of thread-

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    the military are probably extremely sensible to be taking a blanket ban approach to it as a consequence, otherwise they could be inviting individuals with real deep seated problems to enter the ranks and just launch one after another of crippling legal actions because they feel disatisfied with how they are being treated.
    Naturally you hold this view because there's evidence to back it up, like you know, military forces that allow gays to openly serve having crippling legal actions and a real issue with morale?

    I can tell you I sure noticed it in the Australian Army, not a day went by where people apathetically did not care about other soldier's sexualities while the defence force legal eagles struggled to keep up with the never ending law suits that didn't come through.

    There are two soldiers: Good and bad, everything else is moot. IMO a soldier, as with a civilian, has the right to be homophobic, racist, sexist or a bigot, but the legal system should not support their discrimination at the expense of another person's rights to equal treatment.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fan.of.Devin View Post
    That argument failed against racial integration and gender integration, just as it it has now finally failed against sexual integration.
    Not being comfortable around any given group of people, be it blacks/women/Jews/gays/whatever, is the neurotic fault that these individuals in question choose to harbor; try and paint it any way you want, but the reality is that homophobes are the ones with the problem, NOT homosexuals.
    Yeah, that's the stock argument coming from the gay camp, never mind that most champions of racial or gender integration wouldnt see it that way but anyway.

    Yeah, everyone who doesnt see it your way is a neurotic or has issues, its really not you its them. Good luck with that buddy.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    Oh boy, I'm getting whiplash here. So you're actually for legislation about sexuality now? I guess the important thing is making sure gay people don't get any rights, of course, so introducing legislation to take rights away is ok.
    I dont know what rights you're talking about here, what especial rights are they being denied or do they need different from the heterosexual majority? Are you looking to the state to be the architect of some cultural revolution and value shift? Because, you know, the state is just awesome at that kind of thing and has been totally successful in the past any time that's been tried hasnt it? Its not likely to get anyone aggrivated and provoke a backlash at all now is it?

    Whatever. I dont need to live in Gaysville USA. With any luck the inability to reproduce or repress heterosexuality will end it in a couple of generations tops.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Whatever. I dont need to live in Gaysville USA. With any luck the inability to reproduce or repress heterosexuality will end it in a couple of generations tops.
    Because 9 out of 10 biologists will tell us that gay parents breed gay children.

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