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  1. #21
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Irrelevant is probably the incorrect word. It is, however, fallacious to label a majority's consensus as extremist in the context of the population being questioned. One could compare various populations and assign relative values to each of them, but claiming that 3/4s of any nation's population can hold extremist views only serves to display a misunderstanding of the definition of extreme. When a majority reaches a consensus, whatever it may be, it can no longer be considered extreme.
    It is not, however, fallacious to label a majority's consensus 'extremist' when addressing an entirely different population with views that are antithetical to the population polled (where can I find that 'eye-roll' icon now....?).

  2. #22
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    For the purposes of this thread, my sole criteria for extremism is whether or not someone supports the death penalty for apostasy (its actually a substantially higher percentage than 75% in Egypt, btw). If this thread concerned support for suicide bombing (I actually think the belief that apostates should be executed to be far worse as a moral position, and in a consequental sense worse in the long run, than support for suicide bombing), then I would have characterized them as having militant views.
    You demonstrate why it's important to be more careful with your language. When you use vague, emotionally charged terms you are going to have misunderstandings. Some people will read the thread title and think this thread is about suicide bombing, regardless of your own personal definition of "extremist". You could have replaced "extremist" with "support execution for apostates" pretty easily, but you chose not to, perhaps because it wouldn't have gotten the emotional response you wanted.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #23
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    You demonstrate why it's important to be more careful with your language. When you use vague, emotionally charged terms you are going to have misunderstandings. Some people will read the thread title and think this thread is about suicide bombing, regardless of your own personal definition of "extremist". You could have replaced "extremist" with "support execution for apostates" pretty easily, but you chose not to, perhaps because it wouldn't have gotten the emotional response you wanted.
    First of all, the title was cut off before I was finished when I tried to be more precise with my language; it added to my bad mood which led to my original, intemperate thread. Remember, I needed to include the poll results and specific problem countries as well as the other information, and I deemed it more important to get the 2/3 figure and mention Pakistan and Egypt by name-otherwise, you would now be accusing me of painting all Muslims with a broad brush. Second, I already explained the context of my word choice in the original post. It seems to me that you are just looking for reasons to find fault with me.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    First of all, the title was cut off before I was finished when I tried to be more precise with my language; it added to my bad mood which led to my original, intemperate thread. Remember, I needed to include the poll results and specific problem countries as well as the other information, and I deemed it more important to get the 2/3 figure and mention Pakistan and Egypt by name-otherwise, you would now be accusing me of painting all Muslims with a broad brush. Second, I already explained the context of my word choice in the original post. It seems to me that you are just looking for reasons to find fault with me.
    No, sensationalism gets under my skin and "extremist" is a word sensationalists love to use.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #25
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    No, sensationalism gets under my skin and "extremist" is a word sensationalists love to use.
    'Sensationalism' is equating the Christian right with the Taliban, or European Social Democrats with communism. Calling someone who believes that people should be put to death for changing their religion an extremist is not sensationalist at all.

  6. #26
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    So what do you want to do? Invade Egypt? LOL.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  7. #27
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    So what do you want to do? Invade Egypt? LOL.
    No, I want us to confront their population through globalized media and human rights organizations and challenge them over their beliefs, in a sustained effort to encourage change from the bottom-up.

  8. #28
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    I'll be a part of this 3/4. Not because I support "death" but I support religious unity, fake or not, for political(ergo, traditional) reasons. Being in a religion does not really mean anything except to maintain constitutional foundation.

  9. #29
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    No, I want us to confront their population through globalized media and human rights organizations and challenge them over their beliefs, in a sustained effort to encourage change from the bottom-up.
    LOL. You're just going to obtain some more hatred because you're trying to tell them what to do.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  10. #30
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    LOL. You're just going to obtain some more hatred because you're trying to tell them what to do.
    That would be one result; another would be the gradual empowerment of reformers, who will know they have international support. Not that you care either way, it seems.

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