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  1. #1

    Default No more heroes anymore...

    I've just watched a TV broadcast about the wikileaks guy, he's been described as "admired by many", "anti-establishment" and "heroic" I wondered if people agreed, I also want to examine the idea that he is supposedly "anti-establishment" too, how would anyone reach that conclusion?

    I see him as solidly part of the establishment, the supporters who are posting a massive amount of money in police bail are certainly establishment, whether they are liberal, like John Pilger, or conservative I dont particularly care, they are socially and economically very privileged people.

    Has the released information harmed the establishment or will it harm the establishment and will it continue to harm the establishment, I very much doubt it, it certainly has not benefited the general populace in any discernable fashion and I'm sure that there are establishment figures from foreign powers and states which will have positively benefited from these disclosures.

    To be honest I think this guy has engaged in sabotage of the very highest and first order of one of the few democracies capable of using hard power to influence world events, its not arrested the development, profit margins or spread of the military-industrial complex or the intelligence communities.

    Objectively there has been nothing about this which could be described as progressive or constructive but it has been injurious to the very ideas of confidentiality and privacy.

  2. #2
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    If a CIA operative prevents a nuclear holocaust in the middle of the woods in a bunker.... does it make a sound?

  3. #3
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Either his actions are of no consequence, or he is a saboteur of the highest order. Which is it, Lark?

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    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    Either his actions are of no consequence, or he is a saboteur of the highest order. Which is it, Lark?
    Lark's posts make my head hurt...
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    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Whatever happened to all the heroes? All the Shakespeare-o's? They watched their Rome burn.
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  6. #6
    ¡MI TORTA! Amethyst's Avatar
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    There can't be heroes without villains. So, another question to ask would be are if there are still villains. Is it terrorists, the establishments, the IRS, avoiding death? It's hard to say. The world has formed a lot of gray area, so it's harder to say whose a hero and whose a villain, as things aren't as black and white when there were 'heroes'.

    To me, he's just a guy who has exercised his freedom of speech to the point where people are debating whether or not he has crossed a line with it or not, as freedoms aren't entirely free.

  7. #7
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
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    There's also the question of whether a hero is one whose every single act is heroic, or someone who does just 1 heroic deed? Someone can be a hero by saving lives but be a terrible person otherwise.

    I don't view Assange as a hero, but he's certainly going to end up being a martyr to some people
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  8. #8
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    I do think we have fewer heroes in our current times compared to previous generations. I don't think we have any lack of villains. Just think of this list:

    Osama Bin Laden
    Gitmo
    Haliburtan, Lockheed Martin or any other corporation involved in the military-industrial complex
    Bush/Cheney especially in how they pushed the Iraq war
    Fox News
    Everyone involved in the housing bubble and credit default swaps
    consistent devaluing of US currency during the past decade

    There are probably more issues if I think about them. Overall I see us passively accepting everything that is happening to us, while past generations were more active as a whole. And what has been done about the issues listed above? Bin Laden is still at large for all we know. Obama was supposed to correct the problems caused by Bush/Cheney but we're still in both wars and last I checked Gitmo is still open.

    Really the only hero I can think of is Jon Stewart in that he holds up Fox News to show everyone how rediculous it is. The other group I see as proactive is the Tea Partiers, but I think many of them were lead into getting something they didn't really want. Overall it does make me wonder where the heroes have gone, and why people don't seem to care so much anymore.
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  9. #9
    ¡MI TORTA! Amethyst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    I do think we have fewer heroes in our current times compared to previous generations. I don't think we have any lack of villains. Just think of this list:

    Osama Bin Laden
    Gitmo
    Haliburtan, Lockheed Martin or any other corporation involved in the military-industrial complex
    Bush/Cheney especially in how they pushed the Iraq war
    Fox News
    Everyone involved in the housing bubble and credit default swaps
    consistent devaluing of US currency during the past decade

    There are probably more issues if I think about them. Overall I see us passively accepting everything that is happening to us, while past generations were more active as a whole. And what has been done about the issues listed above? Bin Laden is still at large for all we know. Obama was supposed to correct the problems caused by Bush/Cheney but we're still in both wars and last I checked Gitmo is still open.
    Some of those listed are generally agreed by society as being 'villains' to everyone in a particular society, such as Bin Laden, but for the latter things listed there is a much larger gray area where you can find debate as to whether people see those things as villainous or even almost heroic (I have met those certain view who think Bush is a hero, and follow Fox News religiously in a serious context instead of a humorous one ) Thing is, there seems to be internal debate between those who are working for an altruistic cause or a selfish one.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Really the only hero I can think of is Jon Stewart in that he holds up Fox News to show everyone how rediculous it is. The other group I see as proactive is the Tea Partiers, but I think many of them were lead into getting something they didn't really want. Overall it does make me wonder where the heroes have gone, and why people don't seem to care so much anymore.
    I think it's also interesting that Colbert does the same thing with Fox News.
    I'm almost not sure what political side he is on. I think he's conservative, but he's aware of the ridiculousness that has been related to the right wing.

    I also think people are much more apathetic and desensitized, or else a lot of the working class works too much to really think about it, and only think that working more/getting more jobs is the only way to get the bills paid/food on the table etc. I find it funny that some of these people also have really terrible finance managing skills.

  10. #10
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    He is a villain because he told the truth?

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