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  1. #21
    Senior Member Fan.of.Devin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeru View Post
    *random quotation*
    Uh, and?

    Political dirty laundry and unspoken truths; nothing new was learned in this regard from those cables.
    North Korea and the West know that China's interest no longer lies with North Korea, just as Iran knows it's Sunni neighbors hate them.

    It's just vaguely shocking for the less geopolitically aware masses to hear it, hence, it makes good media fodder.
    Again, I'd like to know who is this causing harm to exactly?
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  2. #22
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Believing there are no more heroes strikes me as similar to believing that 'it's all been done'. Both represent a paucity of imagination.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    I see a lot of the typical people attending these things as heroes. I see the leadership as villians. Because a lot of conservatives I've talked to are pissed at both Bush and Obama about the bailouts and runaway spending. But just recently both parties agreed on a bill that added 800+ billion to the deficit, so the politicians are still ignoring the thing that a lot of the typical people are pissed about.

    I think you are right that this is typical behavior for "elites". What I see as atypical is just the plain acceptance of all the crap being thrown at us. Maybe it's because politicians have learned how to imitate heroes. One could say that Obama has done it on the left as much as the Tea Party candidates have done it on the right. So people get behind them hoping to see them make a difference, but then they end up disappointed.
    I dont use the term hero very often, like I'd not apply it to a soldier or fire fighter unless they really where behaving righteously, so I'd not apply it to just demonstrators or people with particular opinions and volition, I'm not sure that it should even be applied to organ donors as it is sometimes and saving lives can be, depending on circumstances, insufficient for my own definition which is mroe to do with it typifying rare or archetypical qualities, something like the Greek or Norse Gods and Heroes.

    So far as the Tea Party goes, well, so went the Students For A Democratic Society, so goes any popular expression of grievance, the establishment find ways to co-opt and neutralise all threats.

    Although I do think that the Tea Party phenomenon is particularly interesting because the conservative establishment need to level with their support and reveal how economies and geo-politics really work, its not how they've been telling them for years and it could threaten many of the central things they've talked people around into holding dearest. Its like they've stoked people for years and now they are having their "Wait you really want this? I thought that was just what we told the other guy, well, F**k..."

    I'm still not entirely sure what to think of Wikileaks. The internet is kind of a wildcard for everyone. You mention Orwell which I think that kind of future is easier to imagine with TV or radio or some similar medium being the primary way to broadcast information. Using these media it's for those in charge to spread propaganda and control what goes out. On the internet anything can go out. I think overall the "elites" are scared of the internet because it is empowering the typical person. That means the "elites" have less comparative power.
    I think that's the net delusion, its not the free rolling and impervious medium that people imagine it to be, I see it and most of the technology which taps into it to be the closest thing to Orwell's view screens there is, although Orwell himself was notoriously anti-technology, not liking the radio or canned food even.

    Almost all laptops and other tech, even a phone, has a camera in it now which could probably be hijacked by the authorities, you seen the opening scenes from eagle eye? All the guy had to do was answer his phone and the image of him was what allowed the authorities to identify him for sure, then just zero in a satellite and rockets away. I dont believe that's far removed from the reality, people laughed at enemy of the state until google maps revealed what civi sats where capable of the military's going to be way ahead of that.

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