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Thread: Super Tuesday

  1. #81
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    The whole, "The only people who have value in society are those who produce" argument is a load of shit in my book.
    You're right if you're talking about society as a whole, sure... but you're incorrect if the discussion is solely about the economy.

    I believe the basis of the idea that losing some public sector jobs does not substantially hurt the economy is that the public sector consumes more than it produces. It's not a profit center.

    For this reason governments cannot drive economies; governments produce nothing, and because of inherent inefficiencies the public-sector contribution to the economy is therefore never as large as the tax burden required to sustain it.

    Are there valid reasons to have public-sector employees? Absolutely! However, the context of Laralus's post dealt specifically with the narrow question of economic policy, and why reducing the number of government jobs wasn't necessarily a bad idea for the economy.

    There's no reason to get upset, Kiddo. Nobody called you a parasite.

  2. #82
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    You're right if you're talking about society as a whole, sure... but you're incorrect if the discussion is solely about the economy.

    I believe the basis of the idea that losing some public sector jobs does not substantially hurt the economy is that the public sector consumes more than it produces. It's not a profit center.

    For this reason governments cannot drive economies; governments produce nothing, and because of inherent inefficiencies the public-sector contribution to the economy is therefore never as large as the tax burden required to sustain it.

    Are there valid reasons to have public-sectory employees? Absolutely! However, the context of Laralus's post dealt specifically with the narrow question of economic policy, and why reducing the number of government jobs wasn't necessarily a bad idea for the economy.

    There's no reason to get upset, Kiddo. Nobody called you a parasite.
    Perhaps I was a bit hasty. I've been debating with objectivist libertarians for weeks now in heated exchanges so I'm a little on edge.

    Now your argument is that government jobs consume more than they produce. Look at it from a social workers perspective. What happens when the valuable producers of society fall victim to substance abuse, are going bankrupt because of unexpected medical bills, lose their house, can't make enough money to provide food for everyone in their household, are suffering from mental illnesses or disabilities, can't obtain the public and private services they desperately need, are living in abusive homes, are elderly but have no one to care for them, etc. How well are they producing if at all?

    You make the argument that government jobs don't provide an economic service, but from the developmental perspective of a social worker, we are providing an incredibly important one. We may not be the pistons, or cogs, or axles, or other necessary parts of the economic machinery, but we are the oil that lubricates the process. We protect the economic machine and keep it from wearing itself out, and I like to think we help it run more efficiently so it gets better mileage.

    I won't lie. I know that many of the government jobs out there are a waste. We desperately need to audit it and probably lay off a great number of people. But I do tend to take great offense to those who insinuate that the services we provide have little economic benefit. Ron Paul doesn't call for an audit, he calls for eradication.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  3. #83
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Ron Paul doesn't call for an audit, he calls for eradication.
    I'm confident that you will never find any reputable quote that indicates that Ron Paul intends to completely abolish all public-sector jobs. The press about Paul has been so over-the-top (perhaps especially in Republican circles) that impressions like yours are pretty common... but even if he were the nutjob that the neo-cons say he his, he still couldn't be crazy enough to think that the federal domestic budget could be cut to zero.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    I'm confident that you will never find any reputable quote that indicates that Ron Paul intends to completely abolish all public-sector jobs. The press about Paul has been so over-the-top (perhaps especially in Republican circles) that impressions like yours are pretty common... but even if he were the nutjob that the neo-cons say he his, he still couldn't be crazy enough to think that the federal domestic budget could be cut to zero.
    I saw him in his interview with Jon Stewart on the Daily Show. He seemed pretty convinced of just that. He would completely eliminate the IRS, Department of Education, and maybe even UNICEF. He couldn't get it down to zero but he sure as heck would completely cut out many, many programs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  5. #85
    Senior Member Mr Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    The whole, "The only people who have value in society are those who produce" argument is a load of shit in my book.
    So what use are they then?
    But sir, your opinion is wrong.
    TANSTAAFL!

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Galt View Post
    So what use are they then?
    I guess they could be used to stoke the fires in the boiler rooms. :rolleyes2:

  7. #87
    Senior Member Mr Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I guess they could be used to stoke the fires in the boiler rooms. :rolleyes2:
    Then they're producing.

    phail.
    But sir, your opinion is wrong.
    TANSTAAFL!

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Galt View Post
    Then they're producing.
    Well, another problem solved.

  9. #89
    Senior Member Mr Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Well, another problem solved.
    And the ones without jobs who leech off of the welfare system?
    But sir, your opinion is wrong.
    TANSTAAFL!

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Galt View Post
    So what use are they then?
    Read post 82.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

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