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  1. #51
    Senior Member Robopop's Avatar
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    The way I see it, wealth producing(example:manfacturing) leads to a stronger, better economy than wealth consuming(most of the US economy now), maybe this is an inherent flaw in the service economy model. The option of should we have bailed the banks out or let them fail is a matter of certainty, it was probably certain that if we didn't have the bailouts we would have an eminent economic collapse, but bailing the banks out might be a more "safe" option to some in the short term. Who knows how bad things could have gotten if the banks didn't get bailed out, but continuely providing stimulus after stimulus(Ben Bernanke's 600 billion dollar stimulus) is delaying and worsening the real problem of overspending/debt.

    I think we are going to make some "hard" choices, is the US going to handle it's debt problems by forcing austerity measures on the american people or is it simply going to "print the debt away"(which might lead to high inflation). The baby boomers are going to be retiring in the 2010's, this in itself will be a major healthcare problem, we can't keep pushing the problems into the future, there is no easy way out.
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  2. #52
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fecaleagle View Post
    Which is why I added the bold:

    Our administration chose to bail these banks out (or really, the banks bailed themselves out but that's another story), which spread the pain throughout the population; this is textbook financial socialism. Or worse, because instead of aiming to help the poor it aimed to do the opposite, so maybe fascism is a better word.

    I disagree. When it comes down to it, all capitalism really means is the existence of a free market. Capitalism builds itself using the free market as its building blocks. So before the banking system came around in the late 1800's, how could there not have been capitalism? Standards of living were fine. People had food, shelter, and their versions of comfort and entertainment. Sure, "normal" people didn't have luxury items in excess like today, but these things are a byproduct of capitalism gone bad. Perhaps your view on standard of living is skewed.
    What is "financial socialism"? What does socialism have to do with "helping the poor", that sounds like charity or altruism rather than socialism, you've got some seriously muddled ideological myopia going on there buddy, once you lose the blinkers maybe we can but until then its a wasted effort.

    BTW your "free market" is a mirage, a utopia, even besides the faults and failings you're willing to acknowledge, though you'll blame the state or bankers (I didnt miss which bankers in particular you mentioned there either, sus where US libertarianism meets old style anti-semtism or global conspiracy) for those, there's something like 16 or 19 acknowledged reasons why free market models will not or can not be practically realised any more than a moneyless, co-operative commonwealth.

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