User Tag List

First 34567 Last

Results 41 to 50 of 80

  1. #41
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Posts
    6,276

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Haven't watched that program but might. Not a lawyer. With this in mind, what about possession of stolen goods?
    I don't know enough about the law to do any more than speculate. I'm thinking a violation intellectual property law might be the only shot the government has of some sort of conviction, but I personally wouldn't consider government documents to be intellectual property. The government is not a person or corporation and therefore has no intellectual property rights, at least that's my opinion.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #42
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    17,884

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Information wants to be free.

    Print created secrecy, but electronic information can be copied and distributed at a moment's notice.

    Print not only created secrecy but also privacy. But secrecy and privacy are over. But we haven't quite got our minds around this yet, never mind learning how to use our new found freedom.

    We are suffering from the fear of freedom.


    Fortunately we live in a res publica, a republic, where our business is supposed to be conducted in public.

    Well, now it is.
    There are large grains of truth here but in fact, I don't agree with your perspectives. Secrecy and privacy are not over and never will be. We will strike new balances on it however.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

    Tri-type 639

  3. #43
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,524

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    There are large grains of truth here but in fact, I don't agree with your perspectives. Secrecy and privacy are not over and never will be. We will strike new balances on it however.
    I think we are so used to incremental changes that a world change catches us by surprise.

    And that is just what wikileaks is doing - catching the world by surprise.

    The size of the leak is amazing, so that it is more of a flood than a leak.

    And of course we still think we can negotiate this world change by compromise and negotiation under the rules of print.

    Whereas the electronic world has subsumed print and taken it over and set it free.

    But we still think it is business as usual - and so I think we are in for more surprises until we change the way we think. When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?

  4. #44
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    17,884

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I think we are so used to incremental changes that a world change catches us by surprise.

    And that is just what wikileaks is doing - catching the world by surprise.

    The size of the leak is amazing, so that it is more of a flood than a leak.

    And of course we still think we can negotiate this world change by compromise and negotiation under the rules of print.

    Whereas the electronic world has subsumed print and taken it over and set it free.

    But we still think it is business as usual - and so I think we are in for more surprises until we change the way we think. When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?
    It's a Tsunami actually if you step back and look at the broader picture (and I'm not just talking about this one incident). We're definitely in for more surprises.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

    Tri-type 639

  5. #45

    Default

    I think the whole thing is an exercise in PsyOps, maybe there's gossip in there which is totally correct, like what ambassadors think of the politicians of different countries, big deal, it really means nothing and at most confirms what people have always suspected, ie US spies on the UN, who wouldnt if they had the resources to do so? The rest of it I think could be a lot of strategically leaked lies with the goal of manipulating foreign states, ie "Did you know what so and so said about you?", very simple but if its mixed in with a lot of apparently embarrassing details which the US would have liked to have been concealed it'll have the ring of plausibility it wouldnt otherwise have.

    Its all tactical and none of it was that serious, which makes the reactions of the authorities, for instance suggesting that wikileaks should be treated as a terrorist group, appear all the more ridiculous and I can only conclude that they must have thought there was detail which was much more serious about to be disclosed.

    Anyone whose read 1984 will know that the secret underground opposition to which enemies of big brother gravitate was created by big brother in the first place.

  6. #46

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I don't know enough about the law to do any more than speculate. I'm thinking a violation intellectual property law might be the only shot the government has of some sort of conviction, but I personally wouldn't consider government documents to be intellectual property. The government is not a person or corporation and therefore has no intellectual property rights, at least that's my opinion.
    If they created a list of prohibited or terrorist organisations like the UK government does they could simple prosecute individuals for being part of the group, assisting the group, directing the groups actions or even being in possession of information likely to be of use to the group.

  7. #47

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    It is a big deal because of the exceptionally strong stance against journalism left in the wake of these leaks. Tell the truth, become a terrorist. It isn't a very good move to be honest under such circumstances.
    I did think that was significant.

    Its a difficult one, open up diplomacy to the uninitiated and it may become more difficult for it to work, on the other hand it could compell them to behave decently or honestly, then again there are some states in the world which are neither decent nor honest and perhaps acting with decency and honesty would tip the balance of power in the favour of the worst sort of states.

    It makes me think of Shogun Total War BTW.

  8. #48

  9. #49
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    2,739

    Default

    "The essential tool of State Department diplomacy is trust between American officials and their foreign counterparts. Unlike the Pentagon which has military forces, or the Treasury Department which has financial tools, the State Department functions mainly by winning the trust of foreign officials, sharing information, and persuading. Those discussions have to be confidential to be successful. Destroying confidentiality means destroying diplomacy."

    So, what they're saying is that it is better to operate with deceit to maintain a false appearance of cordiality than to operate with honesty and transparency? I do not agree with this sentiment. Furthermore, I would argue that this entirely undermines a key component of democracy, one where participants in the process of governing are thoroughly informed of the reality of any given situation to create a genuine resolution, rather than a fantasy world of lies.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Posts
    6,276

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    What a garbage article. You don't have to share Wikileaks' ideology to see the merit in releasing this information. The State department is not "cut off at the knees", their job will be a little more difficult for a while. There is a higher purpose, accountability. I'm glad to see that in many cases American public diplomatic statements are inline with its private statements. This is a good thing to know. I'm not in favor of blind trust. Reagan said "trust, but verify", and the release of this information gives the public an opportunity to verify.

    This is such a terrible article, tossing around meaningless terms like "hard left". It's nothing but partisan rubbish. I'm not bothering to read the rest.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

Similar Threads

  1. Office of Personnel Management Security Breach
    By highlander in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-25-2015, 12:16 AM
  2. The Security Council of the United Nations
    By Mole in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 10-22-2012, 02:15 PM
  3. What Type Is The Author Of The US Declaration of Independence?
    By highlander in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 09-27-2010, 12:08 PM
  4. Distribution of temperaments over the world
    By Gauche in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 02-18-2009, 09:54 AM
  5. Replies: 24
    Last Post: 10-15-2008, 12:48 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO