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  1. #21
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    As usual, the Church is hundreds of years late on a social issue, it's like an everlasting game of catchup with the rest of civilization. And it's not even a real reversal on their condom policy, it's a small exception.

    But because it's all based on scripture that's frozen in time, you really can't blame them for dragging their heels at every sign of human progress. Do we want the Pope to be a sell out? That would erase his authority.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    As usual, the Church is hundreds of years late on a social issue, it's like an everlasting game of catchup with the rest of civilization. And it's not even a real reversal on their condom policy, it's a small exception.

    But because it's all based on scripture that's frozen in time, you really can't blame them for dragging their heels at every sign of human progress. Do we want the Pope to be a sell out? That would erase his authority.
    Is the Church late on a social issue or early for the abandonment of error? Which is more civilised the churches policy on condoms and HIV and family planning or the belief that condoms are silver bullet for either? You are right it is not a reversal, it is a small exception.

    What makes you believe it is based upon scripture and how do you know this? Can you tell me how the church is "dragging its heels" in "human progress"? How do you judge either? I am unsure what you mean by "sell out" but if you mean betrayal then that would erase authority, certainly moral authority, but that is something which has happened a lot over human history, almost every human modern political ideology or other substitute for religion has its betrayal moment already.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Do we want the Pope to be a sell out? That would erase his authority.
    I do.

  4. #24
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Is the Church late on a social issue or early for the abandonment of error? Which is more civilised the churches policy on condoms and HIV and family planning or the belief that condoms are silver bullet for either? You are right it is not a reversal, it is a small exception.

    What makes you believe it is based upon scripture and how do you know this? Can you tell me how the church is "dragging its heels" in "human progress"? How do you judge either? I am unsure what you mean by "sell out" but if you mean betrayal then that would erase authority, certainly moral authority, but that is something which has happened a lot over human history, almost every human modern political ideology or other substitute for religion has its betrayal moment already.
    I'm sorry, but because of the international Ireland bailout that's going on right now, you're indebted to just agree with me here without question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    I do.
    But if the Church adapts more to the times, they might be able to get new constituencies and become relevant again. Like a New Agey kind of Pope taking ecstasy with you in a Cat in the Hat hat.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    I'm sorry, but because of the international Ireland bailout that's going on right now, you're indebted to just agree with me here without question.

    But if the Church adapts more to the times, they might be able to get new constituencies and become relevant again. Like a New Agey kind of Pope taking ecstasy with you in a Cat in the Hat hat.
    Is that the bailout of the economy of the Republic of Ireland because in that case I owe you squat.

    I owe you squat anyway.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    But if the Church adapts more to the times, they might be able to get new constituencies and become relevant again. Like a New Agey kind of Pope taking ecstasy with you in a Cat in the Hat hat.
    So you agree with me?

  7. #27
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    So you agree with me?
    No, I'd rather have the institute stay stagnant and fizzle out that way. So some more modern movements can have their 15 minutes.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Then you disagree with yourself. For if modernism erases the pope's authority, the church loses authority and dies out. Then whatever movements there are can grab the free-roaming sheep and fold them somewhere else.

  9. #29
    ¡MI TORTA! Amethyst's Avatar
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    Uhm...does anyone listen to the Vatican anymore?

  10. #30
    Starcrossed Seafarer Aquarelle's Avatar
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    Anything that helps prevent the spread of AIDS is good with me. It's not only an issue of the Catholic church-- condom use to prevent the spread of AIDS is something that all churches should recommend, in my opinion. Sure, some may say that an individual with AIDS shouldn't be sexually active at all. But if the individual's partner is aware of the risk and okay with the risk, than that's their choice, and if the couple is going to have sex anyway, they should definitely use condoms.

    I don't see this as so much of an issue for gay men-- since the church's stance (which I do not share, but that's beside the point) is against homosexual sex and extramarital sex, gay men who are sexually active with other men probably are not concerned about the church's stance on condom use. But for a Catholic, married, heterosexual couple in which one spouse is HIV-positive, one of 3 things is probably happening currently: 1) They aren't having sex, 2) They are having unprotected sex and risking the infection of the uninfected partner AND also risking a pregnancy, in which case the child may be born with HIV, or 3) They are using condoms despite the church's stance on condom use, and possibly worrying that they are going to Hell for that.

    I am aware that the official position of some religions is that sex should only be for the purpose of procreation, but frankly option 1, within the confines of marriage, is unrealistic. Option 2 is just terrible, and hopefully most people would not consider this option. Option 3 is the most likely, so if a whole bunch of people can be reassured by a religious figure that they respect that they are making the moral choice within their circumstances, that is a good thing.
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