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  1. #31
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Didn't the students have eyes to see that no designated adult was rushing to Nye's aid, though. I mean, sheesh, at least look around, ask, "Should we check on him? Should we call 911?" Instead, they seemed to act like there was a commercial on tv.
    Something Witty

  2. #32
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Students don't have eyes, eyes are a pure liability.

    But it's a good question. Why didn't a designated adult rush to his aid? I refuse to believe that they'd let Bill Nye alone in an auditorium with a bunch of highschoolers. Too much liability. It seems to me that the adults in the room are just as "guilty" as the highschoolers you're so insistent on blaming.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Exactly. Many times in an emergency situation people are told to take roles -- one person is told to call 911, another person is told to get towels, another is told to block the area, etc. This is because if somebody knows that they have a role to do they can focus on that role to get it done, whereas an amorphous blob of people will have no direction -- either everyone will be scrambling to call 911 or will assume that somebody else will do it, and thus no one will.

    In the position of a "student," one is pretty much neutered of all power. If you have been a student recently, you know this. However, being powerless generally means a lessened sense of responsibility. The students, being powerless in their school, would have assumed that an event director or someone would take care of it because they're not supposed to touch or interact with (and therefore help) the guest. What is the next logical step, then if you can't help and are effectively powerless? Tell everyone.

    If you want to be disgusted with anybody, be disgusted with the schools.
    You do know that the quote you base this on is not agreeing with your conclusion, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Students don't have eyes, eyes are a pure liability.

    But it's a good question. Why didn't a designated adult rush to his aid? I refuse to believe that they'd let Bill Nye alone in an auditorium with a bunch of highschoolers. Too much liability. It seems to me that the adults in the room are just as "guilty" as the highschoolers you're so insistent on blaming.
    What is your motivation for saying this? That because you are under some age you can act carefree and dont take responsibility? Where you in a similar experience where you didnt act? Or do you want to be the devils advocate in this thread to protect those with no voice here? Can you please explain why? Because you really make no sense here.

  4. #34
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    I have been in the American school system very recently and I have felt completely neutered of power many, many times. In most school districts, the same rules apply through all grades, the only differences being more severe punishments for older students. We are warned that everything we could have done was a liability to the school. Half of education was the school covering their ass for possible lawsuits. When you feel so powerless, sometimes the only thing you can do is talk to someone else, if that's still allowed.

    My question still stands. Why didn't an adult help him immediately? Even in high schools, students are told to tell the teacher about everything instead of handle anything themselves, because allowing students handle anything is a liability. Because of the liability, I absolutely refuse to believe that there were only highschoolers in that room, probably more than one, so the adults would have been seeing the exact same thing as the students, so the students wouldn't feel the need to act. What were the adults thinking as they didn't act? "Let's teach these twitter-generation kids some responsibility and not do anything?"
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  5. #35
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    I have been in the American school system very recently and I have felt completely neutered of power many, many times. In most school districts, the same rules apply through all grades, the only differences being more severe punishments for older students. We are warned that everything we could have done was a liability to the school. Half of education was the school covering their ass for possible lawsuits. When you feel so powerless, sometimes the only thing you can do is talk to someone else, if that's still allowed.

    My question still stands. Why didn't an adult help him immediately? Even in high schools, students are told to tell the teacher about everything instead of handle anything themselves, because allowing students handle anything is a liability. Because of the liability, I absolutely refuse to believe that there were only highschoolers in that room, probably more than one, so the adults would have been seeing the exact same thing as the students, so the students wouldn't feel the need to act. What were the adults thinking as they didn't act? "Let's teach these twitter-generation kids some responsibility and not do anything?"
    Didn't you get the memo? It's the duty of responsible adults to blame teenagers for everything.
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  6. #36
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Students are hesitant creatures. Maybe that would be the underlying reason... I imagine it is a combination of ignorance of the severity of the situation (because Billy Nye is a slapstick genius person) and hesitation. There is no fucking moral dilemma here, failure to act under these circumstances is not a blow to the spectators' souls or human decency.

  7. #37
    He who laughs
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Didn't you get the memo? It's the duty of responsible adults to blame teenagers for everything.
    LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Students are hesitant creatures. Maybe that would be the underlying reason... I imagine it is a combination of ignorance of the severity of the situation (because Billy Nye is a slapstick genius person) and hesitation. There is no fucking moral dilemma here, failure to act under these circumstances is not a blow to the spectators' souls or human decency.
    LOL

    They did act, since thats the point of bringing up this situation. They twittered it, usually that takes thought. And thought, is usually the basis for action. Unless its a reflex ofcourse, but twittering is not a natural reflex, it can be taught ofcourse.

    Morality, in general terms, is in most situations taught up - down, not down - up. So yes, lets blame the adults.

    EDIT:

    Watch this and think morality in to this.

    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U"]RSA[/YOUTUBE]

    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC7ANGMy0yo"]RSA[/YOUTUBE]

    EDIT EDIT: Id like to point out that the situation in the OP might be trivial and small, compared to other more threatening situations of human morality. But still a debate on who we want to be, where we want to go as a global society is important.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Their actions were fine. At no point did they cease to become spectators. It is amoral, not immoral to not intervene. One could predict this level of apathy given the sheer number of individuals involved in the incident. It is, arguably, an unpleasant reminder of this apathy or "incorrect" action.

    I also would argue that any significant moral development an individual may undertake is likely going to involve only the "up-down" teaching method in its infancy. The significant developments are more likely going to occur as a result of numerous side-to-side interactions, up-down interactions, and down-up interactions, and over a substantial period of time (in most cases). We learn from a number of teachers, whether they are recognized or not.

  9. #39
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Immediate twittering of this incident is disturbing. You'd think as spectators, someone would jump up and yell at security and others on stage to do something if the celebrity didn't get up immediately afterwards. Had it been something happening on the street, the first reaction should be to call 9/11.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Their actions were fine. At no point did they cease to become spectators. It is amoral, not immoral to not intervene. One could predict this level of apathy given the sheer number of individuals involved in the incident. It is, arguably, an unpleasant reminder of this apathy or "incorrect" action.

    I also would argue that any significant moral development an individual may undertake is likely going to involve only the "up-down" teaching method in its infancy. The significant developments are more likely going to occur as a result of numerous side-to-side interactions, up-down interactions, and down-up interactions, and over a substantial period of time (in most cases). We learn from a number of teachers, whether they are recognized or not.
    To second paragraph: I totally agree, my post was lacking those points, yes.

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