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  1. #1
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Default new unknown tribe found from peru

    http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20101113/...e-15af341.html

    i hope people wont corrupt those people by trying to educate them. it might be a good idea for some elder from a tribe that has been corrupted(those elders know the old ways and how these "civilized" people have harmed their tribe) to educate them about the dangers of these outsiders.

    what do you guys think?
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  2. #2
    Senior Member Adasta's Avatar
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    They will ultimately be devastated by diseases or exploitation, particularly if they live near oil reserves.

    It's a tragedy. I bet their way of life is far "better" than ours; these sort of communities often have few interpersonal problems and live quite harmoniously. There don't seem too many taboos and they're unashamed to walk around naked. They're almost like pre-Edenic humans, in a way. Like everyone, I hope they can exist in the same way as they have done up until now.

    What would be interesting is if they could take DNA samples from them and attempt to build a map of their genome to analyse the differences between them and other indigenous Peruvians. They may be resilient to certain conditions, etc.
    That girls are raped, that two boys knife a third,
    Were axioms to him, who'd never heard
    Of any world where promises were kept,
    Or one could weep because another wept.

  3. #3
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adasta View Post
    They will ultimately be devastated by diseases or exploitation, particularly if they live near oil reserves.

    ...

    What would be interesting is if they could take DNA samples from them and attempt to build a map of their genome to analyse the differences between them and other indigenous Peruvians. They may be resilient to certain conditions, etc.
    I find it interesting that you worry about these people being exploited in one paragraph and then seek to take take their DNA in another paragraph. I'm not really sure that these people in their current state are capable of giving informed consent for the study and use of their DNA.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  4. #4
    Senior Member Adasta's Avatar
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    Is a 2 second swipe of the inside of the cheek exploitative? Besides, since when has it been necessary to ask someone for their DNA; all one would have to do is wait for a hair to fall out or something. I suppose how the DNA is used is another thing, but aren't we all in the same predicament then?
    That girls are raped, that two boys knife a third,
    Were axioms to him, who'd never heard
    Of any world where promises were kept,
    Or one could weep because another wept.

  5. #5
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adasta View Post
    Is a 2 second swipe of the inside of the cheek exploitative?
    It's not the process that makes something exploitive its the way the other person or people are dealt with and the impact. If you unfairly derive benefit from swiping someone's cheek than that is exploitation. It's what you gain from unfair treatment of the other person that makes it exploitive it's not the harm done to them.


    Besides, since when has it been necessary to ask someone for their DNA; all one would have to do is wait for a hair to fall out or something.
    It hasn't been. For a long time finders of abandoned property have had full ownership of the abandoned property. But, the modern conception of intellectual property has only been around for a little over a hundred years and knowledge of the genetic information contained in DNA for half as long. The ethical, philosophical and legal complications of Intellectual Property should give us pause before we rush to obtain and possess new information. Simply because we can get it doesn't mean we should.

    I suppose how the DNA is used is another thing, but aren't we all in the same predicament then?
    I don't understand this. What do you mean by us all being in the same predicament.

    Btw, this reminded of when the USA tried to patent a cell line derived from an isolated people group in papua new guinea.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  6. #6
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Romanticism and the Enlightenment

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20101113/...e-15af341.html

    i hope people wont corrupt those people by trying to educate them. it might be a good idea for some elder from a tribe that has been corrupted(those elders know the old ways and how these "civilized" people have harmed their tribe) to educate them about the dangers of these outsiders.

    what do you guys think?
    Tribal life tends to be characterised by infanticide, child sexual abuse, slavery, warfare, sexism, racism, ageism, and religious superstition.

    It's where we came from. And since the Enlightenment of the seventeenth and eighteen centuries, we have slowly been pulling ourselves out of the nightmare of tribalism.

    However Romanticism has been, and remains, a reaction to the Enlightenment.

    And Romanticism romances the past. And in particular it romanticises tribalism.

    And those who suffer most from Romanticism are the children, women, the mentally ill, the homosexual, the gifted, the retarded and the creative individual.

    Romanticism is reactionary. And we see this in reactionary movements around the world.

    And Romanticism is reacting against the Enlightenment.

  7. #7
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Lightbulb The Spoken Culture and the Literate Culture

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    i hope people wont corrupt those people by trying to educate them.
    The difference between tribalism and civilization is literacy.

    A tribe has a spoken culture while civilization has a literate culture.

    By denying tribes education we condemn them to the barbaric past.

    But this is just collateral damage in the war against the Enlightenment.

    It's not so much we hate the tribe, it's that we hate the Enlightenment more. And the tribes are our cannon fodder.

  8. #8
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Tribal life tends to be characterised by infanticide, child sexual abuse, slavery, warfare, sexism, racism, ageism, and religious superstition.

    It's where we came from. And since the Enlightenment of the seventeenth and eighteen centuries, we have slowly been pulling ourselves out of the nightmare of tribalism.

    However Romanticism has been, and remains, a reaction to the Enlightenment.

    And Romanticism romances the past. And in particular it romanticises tribalism.

    And those who suffer most from Romanticism are the children, women, the mentally ill, the homosexual, the gifted, the retarded and the creative individual.

    Romanticism is reactionary. And we see this in reactionary movements around the world.

    And Romanticism is reacting against the Enlightenment.
    lol
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  9. #9
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    i hope people wont corrupt those people by trying to educate them.
    "Noble Savage" fallacy. I'm surprised this is still around.

  10. #10
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    I should mention that I was merely trying to point out the inconsistency in Adasta's thinking. I think these people could definitely gain from outside influence. This is not Star Trek. There is no prime directive. Nonetheless, I am concerned that these people will be exploited not only because of the harm that it will do to the tribe, but also the harm that it will do to the exploiting society.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

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