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  1. #31
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    I'm going to have to agree with Victor and Oberon ...civilized societies have literacy at their core, the invention of the printing press changed our entire world, the Enlightenment rules, and I frequently think about living 150 years ago (although I have a deep and romantic interest in the 18th, 19th, and early 20th centuries) and how I would probably be dead by now of some bacterial infection or due to complications of childbirth, or at least would have teeth rotting out of my mouth. I'm a fan of dentists, antibiotics, feminism, and toilet paper.

  2. #32
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    Smile Tribalism and the Enlightenment

    Quote Originally Posted by neptunesnet View Post
    ^Those damn Muslims! They're so archaic and backwards! If only they would have accepted our Western ways they wouldn't be in the mess they're in today!



    We're seriously derailing this thread, guys.
    Well, let's bring it back on track.

    The Universal Declaration of Human Rights is just that - universal.

    So human rights applies to everyone whether they are tribalists or islamists.

    And it applies to everyone whether you are a woman or a man, an adult or a child.

    So no religion or no State can take away our human rights.

    And of course human rights are a direct result of the European Enlightenment of the 17th and 18th Centuries.

    However it must be pointed out that tribes never experienced the Enlightenment any more than Islam.

  3. #33
    man-made neptunesnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I'm going to have to agree with Victor and Oberon ...civilized societies have literacy at their core, the invention of the printing press changed our entire world, the Enlightenment rules, and I frequently think about living 150 years ago (although I have a deep and romantic interest in the 18th, 19th, and early 20th centuries) and how I would probably be dead by now of some bacterial infection or due to complications of childbirth, or at least would have teeth rotting out of my mouth. I'm a fan of dentists, antibiotics, feminism, and toilet paper.
    Many African societies only have an oral history, does that somehow invalidate their way of life? Of course not.

    And no one was arguing whether having dental care is a good or bad thing. The point is that though many modern tribal societies don't have dentists that doesn't make those societies "bad" or "inferior." If we stop thinking in hierarchies, we'll understand that the only thing these societies are in comparison to ours is different. Which is "better" is so placed in subjectivity, it's not even valuable in this conversation.

    Also, I'd be very, very hesitant to use the word "civilized" when referring to a culture or society. Many historians have stopped using the word because it carries negative connotations with it as well as a very negative history.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptunesnet View Post
    Many African societies only have an oral history, does that somehow invalidate their way of life? Of course not.

    And no one was arguing whether having dental care is a good or bad thing. The point is that though many modern tribal societies don't have dentists that doesn't make those societies "bad" or "inferior." If we stop thinking in hierarchies, we'll understand that the only thing these societies are in comparison to ours is different. Which is "better" is so placed in subjectivity, it's not even valuable in this conversation.
    I agree, especially with the bolded.
    Also, I'd be very, very hesitant to use the word "civilized" when referring to a culture or society. Many historians have stopped using the word because it carries negative connotations with it as well as a very negative history.
    Civilization is usually characterized by the control of impulse of the individual by the society. Since smaller tribes engender culture, and culture dictates learned behavior, those tribes are essentially "civilized" as well. The stereotype of the civilized culture is usually of the industry, and less so the European noble, and even less so of the Ancient Roman noble. Monarchy is thought to establish civilization.

    The advantages of industrial growth don't necessarily outweigh their drawbacks. At that point, it boils down to personal preference, which really doesn't say much. But if personal preference says nothing, then who cares whether this tribe is introduced to the 21st Century or not?

  5. #35
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    And the old feud between Voltaire and Rousseau continues on.


  6. #36
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    My maths lecturer once pointed out how do we know how old is civilization, I've been trying to find something that's nagging me. Then she pointed out that if great civilizations come and go and there are dips between the scale interval of those civilizations that existed before another great civilization popped out. Does that mean we are experiencing and knowing as far back as carbon dating goes or is there more to it than that, that we can't know because stuff decays beyond recoverable after a certain period of time. Aren't we lucky that we can recreate what we can so far. I should of paid more attention. Then she went on about something, string theory and maths during physics.

  7. #37
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    Anyway as to on topic, how is it possible that they evaded all those satellites. Awesome rain forests are ozone friendly awesome.

    New unknown tribe found from Peru on youtube.

    Politics and greed.

  8. #38
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    Doesn't surprise me, considering the record of ancient ruins being discovered only within the last 100 years. The ruins of Machu Piccu for example weren't found untill 1911, nor the Nazca lines til the 1930s.

  9. #39
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    all tribal people are like this guy after 1:26 in this video

    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptunesnet View Post
    It's true that Arabs owned black African slaves before Europeans, but "racism" (a set of beliefs and institutions based on devaluing groups that are thought to be biologically different and thus inferior) is a European invention*... unless, of course, my professor (whose doctorate, btw, is in Islamic Studies) is wrong.
    I don't think slavery or racism were functions of Islam... I would propose, however, that they were and are part and parcel of Arabic culture separate from Islam.

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