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  1. #11
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    We are Borg. You will be assimilated.

  2. #12
    Oberon
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    To my mind, the sooner these folks learn about stuff like germ theory and public sanitation, the better.

  3. #13
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    "Noble Savage" fallacy. I'm surprised this is still around.
    i bet you think it was a good thing that missionaries went to "educate" aboriginals in australia.

    its funny how some people think that education, money, food as much as you can eat, warm house and decent roof over your head brings you happiness. of course you would be miserable if these things would be taken away from you because you are so used to those modern comforts that you can live without them. but its totally different when you are used to live without them, those kind of things will surely be really tempting for people who have lived in jungles, but the reality is that they wont bring them any happiness, they will only take away the true joys of life as those people know and leave them empty handed living in some ghetto in peru and not having anything to eat.

    i had a drunken discussion about this subject with a māori guy once, he wasnt taken from a jungle and neither were his parents, but he totally agreed with me.

    not all tribal people are savages any more than we are, yes they might have some tribal wars, but imo that kind of war is way more moral than what the americans do for example. you forgot that laws corrupt peoples morals, and people who have lived by their morals for thousands of years have totally different "law free" society than what we would have. naturally their ways are much different from ours and some things they do might look immoral to us, but many things like stealing or just being rude to others might be really immoral to them.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  4. #14
    Senior Member Adasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    I should mention that I was merely trying to point out the inconsistency in Adasta's thinking.
    An audacious claim. My thinking is sound. Just because you don't agree with my argument does necessarily open it up to any sort of flaw.

    In order
    [list=1][*] Why do you see DNA swabbing as gaining "benefit"? There's a possibility you could find out about diseases they are prone to and then work to help them avoid them. Whether or not one wants to "interfere" with the society is another matter. My point is that you have portrayed collecting DNA as pejorative when that may not be the case.[*] Intellectual property is a theory which is itself contentious. If you want to talk about it then fine, but its own unstable nature works against it if you're trying to argue logically; it's rife with fallacies.[*] Someone's got access to DNA, possibly your DNA, but what can you do about it? We're all in the same boat there.
    That girls are raped, that two boys knife a third,
    Were axioms to him, who'd never heard
    Of any world where promises were kept,
    Or one could weep because another wept.

  5. #15
    man-made neptunesnet's Avatar
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    The video is problematic in its way, too, I'd say.

    Oooo uncontacted peoples? And ahhh what will be our first mode of interaction with them? Let's stick a camera in their face! Yeah!

    C'mon, they're people. Not a traveling circus.

    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    To my mind, the sooner these folks learn about stuff like germ theory and public sanitation, the better.
    Not necessarily.

    If these people have sustained their way of life for this long, anthropologically speaking they're doing quite well. Remember, it was only when indigenous peoples made contact with the Europeans did they began to die off in significant numbers from disease.

    (As an aside: I personally think we're too germophobic as a culture, anyway. Most people get sick very easily, partly because we sanitize everything! And as a consequence we never grow an immunity to certain bacteria and other invaders. Like my mother used to say, a little dirt won't hurt. And she was right, for the most part.)

  6. #16
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    they obviously have a good local barber shop. those are the most perfect crew cuts i've ever seen
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  7. #17
    ¡MI TORTA! Amethyst's Avatar
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    The video is gone.

    And whoever said that life is 'better' for people there, it's different. No one can say it's better or not, they have different customs and values, there's nothing to compare except those differences, and not if one is 'better' or not.

  8. #18
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adasta View Post
    An audacious claim. My thinking is sound. Just because you don't agree with my argument does necessarily open it up to any sort of flaw.
    Really? Everyone has inconsistencies in their thinking. I know I do.

    Your 1st claim was that you thought it was a tragedy that these people would likely be exploited. Your second claim was that we should use their DNA to map their Genome in hopes that we may find a resiliency to certain conditions.

    I've been arguing that your second claim is exploitive which would make it inconsistent with your first claim. I'm not saying that you are not thinking clearly simply because you disagree with me.

    Why do you see DNA swabbing as gaining "benefit"?
    Because you wanted to do it to learn. Learning is the benefit.

    There's a possibility you could find out about diseases they are prone to and then work to help them avoid them.
    This goes to the fairness of treatment not whether or not there is a benefit. Simply because they get something out of the exchange does not mean it's not exploitation.

    My point is that you have portrayed collecting DNA as pejorative when that may not be the case.
    It may not be the case... but, history tells a different story. Again, I refer you to the Hagahai people in Papua New Guinea. Somewhere in the Jungle there's a dude with billion dollar blood pumping through his body that he gave up.


    Intellectual property is a theory which is itself contentious. If you want to talk about it then fine, but its own unstable nature works against it if you're trying to argue logically; it's rife with fallacies.
    I don't really want to get too in-depth. I have my own problems with intellectual property, but I'm not going to dismiss it out of hand.

    Someone's got access to DNA, possibly your DNA, but what can you do about it? We're all in the same boat there.
    Speaking of fallacies...
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  9. #19
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptunesnet View Post
    Not necessarily.

    If these people have sustained their way of life for this long, anthropologically speaking they're doing quite well. Remember, it was only when indigenous peoples made contact with the Europeans did they began to die off in significant numbers from disease.

    (As an aside: I personally think we're too germophobic as a culture, anyway. Most people get sick very easily, partly because we sanitize everything! And as a consequence we never grow an immunity to certain bacteria and other invaders. Like my mother used to say, a little dirt won't hurt. And she was right, for the most part.)
    he had to be joking, no one can be that stupid to make that kind of statement and not be joking.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  10. #20
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    he had to be joking, no one can be that stupid to make that kind of statement and not be joking.
    No, I wasn't joking. You try living the rest of your life without dentists or toilet paper or grocery stores and see how you like it. You have no idea how privileged you are... or how arrogant you are to think me stupid.

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