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  1. #81
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Amen. Are libertarians going to quit it with "natural rights" thing?
    No, of course not.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  2. #82
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    No, of course not.
    Do you think they should?

  3. #83
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I did read the article, and there's emotive language and ideological force put upon it, saying things like scientists are using new technology to support their "fantasy" of environmental damage. Yep, science is proving fantasies true every day. That's why it's called SCIENCE.
    So you take issue with the scientific data in the article? Which?


    Choosing not to spend my time reading Reason isn't entirely unlike choosing not to spend my time reading the Jehovah's Witness weekly publication The Watchtower.

    Even if I read more of it, it's not going to shift my ideology. Just so you know, one of the people that I've known in my life who I've strongly, strongly admired and left a lasting impression on me (in a mentor way, not a romantic way) told me that he identifies as libertarian, so it's not like I oppose the philosophy out of some personal butthurt.
    Seems pretty personal with you, because you argue that libertarians believe in things we don't, and then, presented with evidence to the contrary, say 1) "Well, I know someone who called himself a libertarian, and he did this!" and then 2) "Well, it doesn't matter, because libertarians are crazy and dangerous, anyway."
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  4. #84
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Do you think they should?
    No? People have rights. They're very important. But some seem to want to add ridiculous things to their list of rights. Like a "right" to government-funded health care. Or a "right" not to have their kids taught by gay people. Or a "right" to own slaves, apparently. Using the word "right" to mean "anything I want that I don't have now" is a disgrace to the concept of natural rights, especially when the real rights get trampled all the time.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  5. #85
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    No? People have rights. They're very important. But some seem to want to add ridiculous things to their list of rights. Like a "right" to government-funded health care. Or a "right" not to have their kids taught by gay people. Or a "right" to own slaves, apparently. Using the word "right" to mean "anything I want that I don't have now" is a disgrace to the concept of natural rights, especially when the real rights get trampled all the time.
    Libertarians use "rights" in their rhetoric more than most, to justify political and economic beliefs like pure capitalism with no regulation or oversight. Maybe you're not as minarchist as they are, but I'm sure you agree some stretch natural rights to extreme applications.

    If natural rights theory means that you have to allow racial discrimination in business, legalize heroin, get rid of the age of consent.... yeah, lots of people think those are ridiculous rights to add as well.

  6. #86
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    Sometimes when reading threads like this, I wish there was a measuring booth before you could enter the thread that said, "You must be this articulate to post".

  7. #87
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Libertarians use "rights" in their rhetoric more than most, to justify political and economic beliefs like pure capitalism with no regulation or oversight. Maybe you're not as minarchist as they are, but I'm sure you agree some stretch natural rights to extreme applications.

    If natural rights theory means that you have to allow racial discrimination in business, legalize heroin, get rid of the age of consent.... yeah, lots of people think those are ridiculous rights to add as well.
    Freedom of association is ridiculous? News to me. Letting people decide what goes into their bodies is ridiculous? Come on now. As for age of consent, I can honestly say I've never seen a libertarian argue for the complete abolition of age of consent laws everywhere. I would imagine a strict constitutionalist type would say "The Constitution doesn't say anything about AOC laws, so the federal government has no right. . ." and it remains (mostly) a state issue, anyway.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  8. #88
    Senior Member Adasta's Avatar
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    I really think a rigourous analysis of terms is necessary when speaking of American politics. It all seems so distorted to me that it's difficult to use any label at all. I mean, in a country where socialism and communism are conflated, the Democratic party is centrist at best and people balk at the thought of any sort of progressive taxation, isn't the American debate an extremely isolated and contorted one?

    pure_mercury's argument seems confused to me. I mean, the "right" to healthcare and the "right" to own slaves are completely different. Yes it's ridiculous to use the word right in all circumstances (which is your point), but it's also ridiculous to use these examples as premises for the argument you are propounding.
    That girls are raped, that two boys knife a third,
    Were axioms to him, who'd never heard
    Of any world where promises were kept,
    Or one could weep because another wept.

  9. #89
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    pure_mercury's argument seems confused to me. I mean, the "right" to healthcare and the "right" to own slaves are completely different. Yes it's ridiculous to use the word right in all circumstances (which is your point), but it's also ridiculous to use these examples as premises for the argument you are propounding.
    A Right can only extend so far broski.

    No one can have a right to deprive others of theirs.

  10. #90
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Rights, properly speaking, don't exist. They are a social fiction.
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