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  1. #281
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    He can be taught!
    Now you're just participating to piss me off!

    I had you pegged from the very beginning.

  2. #282
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    Pegged as?

    Please tell me Mr. Wizard...

  3. #283
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Patronizing is a sure-fire way to make it more difficult for another person to be convinced of a position because it blurs and distracts from the issue. This is what is the worst about the mass media and the behavior of politicians. They act like that and so the population apes their style. The concept of debate is the same as winning in sports - you dominate, overpower, and attempt to humiliate an opponent so that they have lost. Learning becomes irrelevant. This has nothing to do with creating convincing, rational arguments in an environment where a person actually can integrate new information, learn, and perhaps even change their original hypothesis based on reason.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  4. #284
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    I find this stunning, set as it is among a couple of paragraphs in categorical defense of the top-down solution.



    ...ah, there it is. I was concerned there for a moment, but you salvaged your consistency at the end.
    I don't see what's so stunning about my post. Sometimes top-down solutions are superior, sometimes they're not. I'm no more a fan of people who always look to government to solve problems than I am a fan of people who view government as the source of all problems.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #285
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    I'm sure this has already been answered in at least some sense, but I'll put forth my own perspective anyway. When it comes to the issue of a constitution vs an optimal government. The problem with allowing major changes, even for the better, is that you don't know that they're better. Also, the wrong people can get into power and then they make all kinds of bad changes. Constitutional amendments are very difficult to make because it's supposed to weed out the bad stuff. Only if something is really good and necessary, and people can see this and agree to it, does it get through.
    You lose.

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  6. #286
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    The 18th amendment is wonderful demonstration of your position.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #287
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    The 18th amendment is wonderful demonstration of your position.

    My point is that you would see a lot more bad amendments if they were easier to make.
    You lose.

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  8. #288
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    My point is that you would see a lot more bad amendments if they were easier to make.
    If they were easy to make, we would figure out what we want and what we don't want a hell of a lot faster.

  9. #289
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    If they were easy to make, we would figure out what we want and what we don't want a hell of a lot faster.
    I agree with this. Because the system is so difficult to adjust (both adding and subtracting), there are lots of things we just don't try.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #290
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    If they were easy to make, we would figure out what we want and what we don't want a hell of a lot faster.
    Part of the point of making it extremely difficult to amend the Constitution is that, sometimes, what we want turns out to be a really bad idea.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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