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  1. #271

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Going back to the original topic... I've always thought I've leaned left, but in this thread I find myself agreeing more with conservative posters. Considering I'm 35, I suppose the transition is almost complete.
    I tend to think right wing arguments are dumb, they are the kind of thing I hope that while people could cling to them in a sort of instinctive fashion or gutsy way that they'd know better than or abandon on second thoughts. I've always felt that way.

    Although that said I dont consider authoritarianism necessarily right wing and I know a lot of people do, it depends on how it is defined really like what I said at the time when I posted the political typology thread many moons ago.

    I tend to see right wing arguments are holding that poverty and unnecessary, avoidable suffering is utilitarian, useful or socially beneficial, that can take a lot of shapes, talking about consequences, opposing amelioration or relief of poverty or any kind of intervention to that end, essentially opposing altruism and only endorsing benefice as a sort of unintended side effect of something else. Its not something which I can support at all.

    There are things which people holding those views may coincidentially believe which I also believe for very different reasons and I dont think its unimportant the reason why some action or proposal or policy is supported or not. Like I think there is a major difference in opposing the paternalism of the welfare state, while acknowleding it may be a lesser evil than the sort of existence which preceeded it, and opposing the welfare state because you believe in a society red in tooth and claw.

  2. #272
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    So your position is what precisely?

    I don't know if I've ever come across someone who can simultaneously say so much, yet so little.

    It's easy to condemn the views of others when you never get off the fence.

  3. #273
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I tend to think right wing arguments are dumb, they are the kind of thing I hope that while people could cling to them in a sort of instinctive fashion or gutsy way that they'd know better than or abandon on second thoughts. I've always felt that way.
    I tend to think both the right wing and left wing have plenty of dumb arguments. But in the US, if you listen to the leadership and the pundits and compare it to the actions of the GOP, then the right wing becomes almost 100% moronic. I've encountered conservatives that make good points, but these are ordinary people that I meet in my day to day life. Most of these reasonable conservatives are pissed off in one way or another at how the country was run under the Bush administration.

    So it kind of depends on if you are talking about the average joe or the GOP leadership. The conservative view can make some good points in theory, but it still looks like crap in reality.
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  4. #274
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    But the Constitution pretty much addresses what the federal government may or may not do. That is a pretty narrow set of parameters. Don't you think that common law should have a major part in determining the more functional, quotidian governmental processes?
    What's more important, the principle of "limited government" (talking about federal, here) or finding the "best" solution to a problem (even if that might mean more federal government involvement)? We probably agree far more than we disagree on what the federal government should and should not be involved in. What I don't like is the knee-jerk reaction, the fact that people with certain ideologies won't even consider the possibility of a solution involving the federal government.

    Regarding common law, its existence is obviously necessary, but its use should be limited. It handles small civil disputes fairly well, but issues with broader implications, like pollution and intellectual property rights, I think relying on common law just leads to a very wasteful system. I'm generally not a fan of top-down solutions, but there are situations where top-down solutions are superior.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I'm generally not a fan of top-down solutions...
    I find this stunning, set as it is among a couple of paragraphs in categorical defense of the top-down solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    ...but there are situations where top-down solutions are superior.
    ...ah, there it is. I was concerned there for a moment, but you salvaged your consistency at the end.

  6. #276

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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    So your position is what precisely?

    I don't know if I've ever come across someone who can simultaneously say so much, yet so little.

    It's easy to condemn the views of others when you never get off the fence.
    I'll keep it simple for you especially.

    I'm left wing. I was in my youth. I still am.

    Understood?

  7. #277

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    I tend to think both the right wing and left wing have plenty of dumb arguments. But in the US, if you listen to the leadership and the pundits and compare it to the actions of the GOP, then the right wing becomes almost 100% moronic. I've encountered conservatives that make good points, but these are ordinary people that I meet in my day to day life. Most of these reasonable conservatives are pissed off in one way or another at how the country was run under the Bush administration.

    So it kind of depends on if you are talking about the average joe or the GOP leadership. The conservative view can make some good points in theory, but it still looks like crap in reality.
    It depends, like I said I can agree with some cultural conservatism, personally I'm fiscally conservative but I dont think it necessarily makes good public policy. I know that there's some distance between what many individual conservatives think and their representatives but I still think that conservatism has disappeared off the political map, extreme right wing.

  8. #278
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    He can be taught!

  9. #279
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    He can be taught!
    Yes, but it remains to be seen whether he can apply it.

  10. #280
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    I don't really subscribe to any one ideology or political position. I'm a pragmatic realist. There are those that think communism is the solution to everything, or laissez-faire capitalism is the key to a better tomorrow, or whatever "ism" is out there.

    I tend to think of those people as immature thinkers, clinging to positions like a religion.

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