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  1. #211
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Having an extensive knowledge of anything has very little to do with IQ.
    People with low cognitive abilities don't really understand complex topics such as economics. Most of the population isn't mathematically inclined, for example, and would be at a loss trying to process econometric analysis. Most (not all) people with that low an IQ would be disinclined to study that sort of subject anyway.

    Even if it did, the repercussions of removing such a massive constituency from civic policy would be disastrous
    Such as...?

    not to mention completely contemptible by anyone with a trivial grasp of morality.
    The US had a restricted franchise up till the 1930s or so. Most European governments have been ruled by empowered monarchies up till the first half of the 20th century (and, incidentally, became industrialize under monarchical rule). Did humanity discover morality in 1950?
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  2. #212
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    This is true, which is why I support restricting the franchise (if it is to be allowed at all) even further than simply a minimum IQ requirement. I think for people to be allowed to vote they need to be intelligent, mature, educated, and have a real stake on the long-term health of the country.
    Then by definition you do not believe in democracy. The definition of "for the people, by the people" would at its core rely on the average person (who by definition has an IQ 100. IQ is a relative measure and does not define intelligence independently of a specific context. Online communities have inflated the "average IQ" to perhaps around 130-140. Most people online probably have actual IQs of 105-110 on average, even though most report higher than 130.) The point of that is to note that IQ 98 is not nearly as low as people assume ironically because most people don't seem to understand what it is even measuring or reporting. You have to be IQ 70 or below to be defined as having problems functioning in society.

    The idea that the ruling class should be a specialized elite is exactly what democracy is a reaction against - it is the opposite ideology.
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  3. #213
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annwn View Post
    Then by definition you do not believe in democracy.
    I thought the comment "worst system ever devised" would have given that away already...
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  4. #214
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post

    Such as...?
    Removing suffrage is simply not viable. Try taking the voting constituency of any nation, and then removing HALF of the members in that group. Chances are, if you don't end up with open rebellion, you'll have to settle for some of the other despicable consequences of disenfranchisement. Can you honestly say with a straight face that these people will be better off without any say in the laws that continue to affect them? Can you honestly say that those below an arbitrary threshold will become empowered in any way, shape, or form by having their input symbolically and functionally discarded as if it were worthless? I would argue that you absolutely could advance the interests of the REMAINDER of the constituency, the group who suddenly has their influence and power doubled. You could even argue that this would be empowering the nation itself, because this group could freely advance any agenda to their benefit, but not to the benefit of the disenfranchised. It would take a monumental gesture of compassion to grant them even scraps at that point, but the interests of a powerful caste will absolutely improve.

  5. #215
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annwn View Post
    A median IQ of 98 doesn't say anything in itself except that the U.S. would be slightly below the average world-wide, but the test is problematic beyond simply that and also would not specifically measure the ability to make sociological and political decisions (a tangent discussion). It is worth noting that even the most intelligent person can be altered by propaganda. It is important to educate people, but also important to protect the freedom in the flow of information, so that it isn't controlled by a government or corporate giant, or any single power structure. That is one of the bedrocks of political freedom and progress.
    If you look at the source, it actually puts the U.S. 19th-highest in the world, by country.
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  6. #216
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    How many people think we should live under an Aleksei-ocracy? A military dictatorship with Premier Aleksei in charge?

    Okay, now of the ones who held their hands up, how many of you have guns? Anybody?

  7. #217
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annwn View Post
    (who by definition has an IQ 100. IQ is a relative measure and does not define intelligence independently of a specific context. Online communities have inflated the "average IQ" to perhaps around 130-140. Most people online probably have actual IQs of 105-110 on average, even though most report higher than 130.
    Median IQ worldwide is actually 90, though if you remove China from the list it's actually closer to 80. 100 is the median IQ of Great Britain.
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  8. #218
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    The test is through action. If we elect a candidate and his or her actions are not sufficient to our needs, we simply replace them with somebody else. This is exactly how the selection process for representatives should work.
    Why not prefilter candidates? This way the Palins and Dubyas of the world wouldn't waste taxpayer time and monies.

  9. #219
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Why not prefilter candidates? This way the Palins and Dubyas of the world wouldn't waste taxpayer time and monies.
    How would prefiltering candidates save us from a Palin or a Dubya? Both of them are clearly quite intelligent, even if they have to put on a puppet show to appeal to the "average American."

  10. #220
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Median IQ worldwide is actually 90, though if you remove China from the list it's actually closer to 80. 100 is the median IQ of Great Britain.
    Then it should be recalibrated because 100 by definition is the mean. A worldwide mean of 90 is not possible. Here is a link: http://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/IQBasics.aspx

    I hadn't read your earlier comment about "worst system devised", but that would be consistent with your comments. What political system do you support? What we have now is not "for the people by the people". We have a ruling class which is an economic elite, although I have to admit some of them are surprisingly stupid.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

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