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  1. #11
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Yeah, I've no sympathy for the shop owner at all, that sort of aggression is never warranted and the interaction made me think that either the guy was trying to provoke a physical confrontation, either to have a punch up or to press charges of assault, and at one point I even thought this has got to be a training video or some shit because it cant be real.

    Skater guy seems a bit old to be a skater actually and the whole thing has that strange Middle America feel about it, like the anti-social behaviour IS thoughtless but NOT threatening and the reaction to it is totally over kill and seriously infused with all kinds of rage about things other than what is simply going on at the time, I mean that guy wasnt simply aggrieved about the bush, he'd been replanting it, there was a sort of epic struggle going on there between him and his perceived foes and it really looked like the perceived foes, the skaters, where pretty ignorant of the guys grievance (but also unlikely to think about whatever had pissed him off, instead just simply that he was pissed off).

    This is something I try, and fail its got to be said because I think it is about a sort of internal maturation that you cant magically accelerate as it happens at its own pace, to instill in the kids I work with. You could have a legit issue, the minute you get aggressive that doesnt matter, it ceases to be about your issue, or your anger for that matter, and becomes about your aggressive behaviour.

    Back to the middle America thing, if this where to be shot in the UK, it'd feature probably a group of hooded, scrawny younger kids, they'd be smoking, sniffing solvents, possibly drinking or abusing drugs, it'd be mixed male and female, they'd very possibly be shouting swears at passers by and if anyone ran in their direction to shout at them they'd get knifed or attacked. Now it could be a BS attack, a sort of flailing "forward panic", I've seen plenty of that, but even at that all you have to do is fall and they'll be jumping up and down you on the ground. Now I reckon anyone scrutinising vids like this one and considering it anti-social doesnt know they're born to be honest.

  2. #12
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    You know, one of the things this read brings to mind is the amazing way some people seem to be unable to associate the consequences of their actions with themselves. It's like the think they can go around going whatever they feel like, and nothing will happen. In some ways he was lucky that it was just a pissed off shop owner, not a pissed off shop owner with a gun. The fact is, if you go around acting like that, sooner or later it's going to cross the wrong person. People have been killed over such incidents. You can say "He didn't deserve!" as much as you want, but the world is full of people with serious problems. Prod them at your peril.
    Don't make whine out of sour grapes.

  3. #13
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    I will say that the excessive screaming and things just causes more rebellion, because instead of the skater seeing that what he did was unethical (because no matter what you guys say, it was, and he started it, and apparently engaged in this behavior repeatedly) ... BUT when the shop owner overreacts and loses control like that, it allows the younger guy to deflect from his own bad behavior by saying, "well look at this douche, he's screaming at me like a toddler."

    Ideally the situation would have been dealt with, but dealt with more calmly.

  4. #14
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Ideally the situation would have been dealt with, but dealt with more calmly.
    I'm sure the judge will be calm when he deals with the young man. Maybe that will get the point across.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  5. #15
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    You know, one of the things this read brings to mind is the amazing way some people seem to be unable to associate the consequences of their actions with themselves. It's like the think they can go around going whatever they feel like, and nothing will happen. In some ways he was lucky that it was just a pissed off shop owner, not a pissed off shop owner with a gun. The fact is, if you go around acting like that, sooner or later it's going to cross the wrong person. People have been killed over such incidents. You can say "He didn't deserve!" as much as you want, but the world is full of people with serious problems. Prod them at your peril.
    Seriously plugging someone because the uprooted a bush would be an over reaction in extremis.

    I'm glad you qualified it with the bit that the world is full of people wiht serious problems and prod the at your peril because I dont see anyway that it would be proportionate to start gun slinging with so little a provocation and draw down on a group of skaters.

    I believe very strongly in natural and logical consequences being used to teach people and encourage them to change their behaviour but I've got to say that I also believe very strongly in proportionality too, this guy when challenged said he wasnt going to become aggressive, he also said he wouldnt run away, he said he would speak with police officers and tell them his name, which I felt was fair, he also offered to pay for the uprooted plant. I dont even believe the aggressive challenge was proportionate.

    The thing about consequences is that its taken on a whole ideological complection, people want people to meet essentially cruel and serious ends for fairly minor transgressions, or so it seems, its more and more the case, harbouring those sorts of thoughts and desires its not a wonder that fairly simple things escalate to life and death matches when there's no need at all.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    It's not in the video, but it's quite possible that it wasn't this group of skaters, but someone else (skater mentions that others use this area also) who actually did the damage. The video doesn't show the guy actually doing anything to the bushes at all.

    I didn't watch the interactions with the police at the end.

    Assuming he messed up the guy's bushes, that was inconsiderate. Don't screw up other people's property. The owner makes the point, flailing like a fool but still a point, that if you hurt someone's property, you are hurting them. Now, of course, I wouldn't equate this with actual assault and battery, but hey, that's how some people take it.

    Overall, the shop owners reaction is overly emotional. I think hysterical would be a good word for it.

    I have no other reactions to this other than if I were in the skaters place, I'd walk away. Not run. Walk. Be persistent, and keep moving. The guy seemed crazy, but just persist and keep moving off, and eventually you'd be able to get away.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    I wonder if he is that stupid, since the police now know his name and address.
    I did not see it to the end.

  8. #18
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    I did not see it to the end.
    He didn't reveal his information on camera. The police arrived and talked to the shopkeeper, now playing it a lot more innocuous.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    The guy seemed crazy, but just persist and keep moving off, and eventually you'd be able to get away.
    But his woman was sure as hell supporting his crazy, and like a trooper. Did you notice that? She seemed equally as indignant, if quieter and calmer, and didn't seem surprised at all by the shop keeper's behavior, just dialed the police and waited.

  10. #20
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Yeah, Andy, I noticed that the second time I watched the video - the skater was actually RIPPING the bushes out, it's not like he accidentally knocked it over with careless skater behavior.
    It was only evident in the dialogue:

    Shop Owner: "That's MY FUCKING BUSH!"
    Skater: "Alright, I always put it back..."

    The shop owner probably had a really shitty day. It was in the evening when people are winding down, and this skater kid comes along to ruffle his feathers. He's well within his rights, and I could understand why he's so upset. This doesn't apply to all people of the skater subculture, but it seems like many of them don't give a damn about property rights. Many of my highschool skater friends were banned from public establishments because they were crossing the line from being a customer, to loitering, to vandalizing. The shop owner also brought up an excellent point: "Isn't there some skate park where you can do this?", to which the skater replied "yes", but then deflected the issue entirely. It's not like the skater was being marginalized into a desperate situation that somehow forced him to fuck with someone's bushes. He was trying to do something taboo to see if he could get away with it.

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