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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Thanks for sharing what you think of that image... as a check on my hypothesis, does it correspond with your take on Guy Fawkes?
    I'm not sure what you mean but then I'm not sure what you mean by leftist framing of the tank man pic either.

  2. #22
    Oberon
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    My hypothesis, sketched very briefly in post 16 of this thread, was that what one makes of Guy Fawkes (hero, anti-hero, villain?) might be predicted by how one interprets the Tank Man image.

    I thanked you for sharing your interpretation of that image, and in order to test my hypothesis I asked what you thought of Guy Fawkes. Was he hero, anti-hero, villain? Something else entirely? What do you make of him?

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    My hypothesis, sketched very briefly in post 16 of this thread, was that what one makes of Guy Fawkes (hero, anti-hero, villain?) might be predicted by how one interprets the Tank Man image.

    I thanked you for sharing your interpretation of that image, and in order to test my hypothesis I asked what you thought of Guy Fawkes. Was he hero, anti-hero, villain? Something else entirely? What do you make of him?
    I think that Fawkes planned violence to advance the cause of toleration for Roman Catholicism, that's going to sound bizarre to the modern mind because how would you get toleration by being violent, surely you'd only get more of the same oppression and people would feel more justified in meeting it out? Maybe, however if you've nothing to lose you might feel from despair or righteous indignation that you're going to operate from a mere "I'm not taking this shit anymore" impulse. Which is what I think it was.

    Now granted I'm operating from an everyday understanding of it, Catholic Rebel means to blow up Protestant Monarch's Protestant Parliament, I'm absolutely certain there was more to it than that, like I said there's scotch and english animosity, rival royal houses, sectarianism between protestant, catholic and dissenter, Scots where expelled from England at that time too not just Catholic ones too.

    Why do you link the tank man to Guy Fawkes? Do you think they are each anti-authoritarian images or what? That's pretty reductive or simplistic.

    BTW I dont think that my framing of the Tank Man topic was "leftist", I was trying to inject some cultural and contextual specificity into understanding of that picture, that's not leftist surely? Unless you think that leftism is more objective than other creedos, I'd not be the first person to say so, given my own understanding of what leftism is or means and also what I think you think it is or means (I'm assuming you're using it in a prejorative sense and possibly in association with the authorities in China).

  4. #24
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    I think of Tank Man as inspirational. I hope the people that pulled him away were just regular people and he's still alive; and that they weren't the secret police and he was shot a few days later as is the main rumor.

    I think Guy Fawkes was almost a terrorist.

  5. #25
    Oberon
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    No, I didn't mean to use the term "leftist" in a pejorative sense, merely a qualitative one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    BTW I dont think that my framing of the Tank Man topic was "leftist", I was trying to inject some cultural and contextual specificity into understanding of that picture, that's not leftist surely? Unless you think that leftism is more objective than other creedos, I'd not be the first person to say so, given my own understanding of what leftism is or means and also what I think you think it is or means (I'm assuming you're using it in a prejorative sense and possibly in association with the authorities in China).
    That being the case, I thank you for sharing your objective truth with us. Thanks.

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