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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I don't believe Republicans will do any better. I don't know if I'll ever get over their passing of Medicare Part D. I'd like to give a Rand Paul head-stomping to all of the Republicans that voted for that piece of legislation. They always talk about reforming entitlement programs like Social Security, but they never actually do it. I don't think they ever will. Instead, they sell us out. They cannot be trusted.
    I don't have a problem with entitlement programs in particular. But I agree with the bolded part. I think it is still all about the economy...and how can people forget this?:

    http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2009/...ord-on-record/

    I think it is time for voters to stop thinking along party lines. That is the only way we can get real change.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
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  2. #22
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I don't have a problem with entitlement programs in particular.
    I don't in a moral sense. But in a practical sense, I do. We can't afford them the way they are currently structured, long term. They were designed to work with the country having a certain demographic makeup, and the country's demographic makeup has changed. Because of Medicare Part D, we now have an even bigger hole we have to dig ourselves out of.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I don't in a moral sense. But in a practical sense, I do. We can't afford them the way they are currently structured, long term. They were designed to work with the country having a certain demographic makeup, and the country's demographic makeup has changed. Because of Medicare Part D, we now have an even bigger hole we have to dig ourselves out of.
    Its not just demographics, the shift from a mass employment to jobless growth economy has a big impact too.

  4. #24
    Sniffles
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    So the question begged here is whether a welfare state can actually be maintained over the long haul?

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    So the question begged here is whether a welfare state can actually be maintained over the long haul?
    I think it sure can, its contingent on two things though:

    - It can change and adapt

    - The compulsion or willingness of all subscribers to maintain it

    Its no less sustainable than any other human innovation like agriculture, urbanism or the economy.

  6. #26
    Welcome to Sunnyside Mondo's Avatar
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    I feel reasonably confident that Obama's policies are taking us closer to the right direction than another Republican would have.
    All of this bad shit happened under Bush.
    With all of that said, I think the Republicans ran a very good campaign this year.. all many of them had to say was "Taxes are bad, m'kay" and that's how they gained a lot of supporters.
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  7. #27
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mondo View Post
    I feel reasonably confident that Obama's policies are taking us closer to the right direction than another Republican would have.
    All of this bad shit happened under Bush.
    With all of that said, I think the Republicans ran a very good campaign this year.. all many of them had to say was "Taxes are bad, m'kay" and that's how they gained a lot of supporters.
    Really? None of it happened under Obama? Or under Clinton, for that matter? I don't think you've kept up with the news so well.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  8. #28
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Depends what he means by "all this bad shit". Certainly the economic crash, the expensive wars, a lot of irresponsible deregulation, and the turning of a surplus into the greatest deficit the country has ever seen did happen under Bush (to name a few). I generally don't feel Obama's failures (so far) are very comparable to Bush's. They seem characterized by half-measures, underwhelming returns, compromise, not outright disaster or incompetence.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  9. #29
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    Depends what he means by "all this bad shit". Certainly the economic crash, the expensive wars, a lot of irresponsible deregulation, and the turning of a surplus into the greatest deficit the country has ever seen did happen under Bush (to name a few). I generally don't feel Obama's failures (so far) are very comparable to Bush's. They seem characterized by half-measures, underwhelming returns, compromise, not outright disaster or incompetence.
    Which deregulation do you think was so bad? I happen to think Bush was terrible on economic freedom. Those things did happen, for sure, but lots of bad things have happened before and since. "It was Bush's fault" is no longer a viable excuse for a man who was elected POTUS two years ago.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  10. #30
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Which deregulation do you think was so bad?
    I'll answer for him: deregulation of derivatives. In particular the Commodities Futures Modernization Act of 2000. Though this was under Clinton, but pushed by Republicans.

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