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  1. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Institutions after all serve a major role in the transmission of learning and experience between generations, proving a vital bridge between the past, present and future.
    That's not necessarily a good thing.

  2. #132
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    That's not necessarily a good thing.
    I dont understand. Surely this is an undesputed good thing, if one generation can provide the benefits of their experience the other can avoid unnecessary suffering by repeating the pervious generations errors and mistakes?

    I'm not talking about a stilted indoctrination here but the sorts of learning which should be conveyed through the experience of family life, neighbourhood etc.

  3. #133
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    Neither is intrinsically wrong. I happen to think they are, but others could disagree. But fairness would dictate that those who support these actions as the aggressor must not change their tune when they are the victim.
    Er no, they are very easily identifiable as intrinsically wrong.

  4. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Er no, they are very easily identifiable as intrinsically wrong.
    I have to agree here. Rape and genocide aren't intrinsically wrong, but you just have to accept BEING raped or wiped out if you have raped or wiped out before? Please. That line of thinking is the really BAD kind of moral relativism.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  5. #135
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    Envy is institutionalized whether there's capitalism or not, because envy is an institution of human nature.
    "Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away." -Ekaku Hakuin
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  6. #136
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Again, the envy (at least for me) is not in wanting what they have. It's that my income bracket (including me and all my friends) are in a state of almost perpetual struggle, along with the rest of the economy. Yet, executives and entertainers and athletes alike are lavished with so much that it's like there is no economic crash and they are set for life. (Unless they squander it, and that usually only happens if their career passes). Some may have to sell a house or car or two, but they are still enjoying abundance, while everyone else suffers scarcity.

    Again, everyone thinks "they earned it", based on "the market determines their worth", but still, if we're all working hard, then I think that's ridiculous.

    (Conservatives usually retort that the objector is just lazy and wanting what someone else has instead of working harder. But we are!
    What's worse, is that in a discussion on a conservative board, in discussion of the news story millionaires actually acknowledging the great disparity, suggesting Bush's tax cuts to them end, http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thetic...o-obama-tax-us people called even them "whiners" (they're the ones willing to give something, not the ones asking for something!) and criticized them for "giving money back to the government to waste".)
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  7. #137
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Again, the envy (at least for me) is not in wanting what they have. It's that my income bracket (including me and all my friends) are in a state of almost perpetual struggle, along with the rest of the economy. Yet, executives and entertainers and athletes alike are lavished with so much that it's like there is no economic crash and they are set for life. (Unless they squander it, and that usually only happens if their career passes). Some may have to sell a house or car or two, but they are still enjoying abundance, while everyone else suffers scarcity.

    Again, everyone thinks "they earned it", based on "the market determines their worth", but still, if we're all working hard, then I think that's ridiculous.

    (Conservatives usually retort that the objector is just lazy and wanting what someone else has instead of working harder. But we are!
    What's worse, is that in a discussion on a conservative board, in discussion of the news story millionaires actually acknowledging the great disparity, suggesting Bush's tax cuts to them end, http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thetic...o-obama-tax-us people called even them "whiners" (they're the ones willing to give something, not the ones asking for something!) and criticized them for "giving money back to the government to waste".)
    Those rich people can donate as much as they want to the government. The Treasury accepts donations. They don't speak for everyone.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  8. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont understand. Surely this is an undesputed good thing, if one generation can provide the benefits of their experience the other can avoid unnecessary suffering by repeating the pervious generations errors and mistakes?
    It's a double edge sword. Generations can also pass their ignorance, hatred and intolerance to the next also.

  9. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Er no, they are very easily identifiable as intrinsically wrong.
    Easily? Can you prove your claim? What is your criteria?

    Simply asserting it is not good enough, because your opponent could simply assert the opposite.

  10. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Rape and genocide aren't intrinsically wrong, but you just have to accept BEING raped or wiped out if you have raped or wiped out before? Please. That line of thinking is the really BAD kind of moral relativism.
    No. If you believe it is morally good to rape another person, then you must also accept that it morally good for someone to rape you. It's the fairness principle. There are no other mutually acceptable ways for opponents to reach agreements about morals.

    If you do not accept the fairness method, then I challenge you to propose a better one.

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