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Thread: Lying in media

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    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Default Lying in media

    This totally pisses me off. Why the hell are people allowed to lie in media?

    For example people are telling everywhere that marijuana destroys brain cells, even tho it has been scientifically proven like 10 years ago that it actually protects brain cells from external harms like alcohol and other poisons and doesent destroy them or harm them in any way. Because people lie about this thing, they are deceiving the audience into believing to something that isnt true, what really pisses me off is that these people are usually so called experts in this matter. Why do such ignorant fools even get to a position where they can be called professionals? I think everyone who has gained this level of reputation where they can be called professionals in something should lose their authority in what ever they are called professionals in.

    Another thing is politicians lying in media(let it be about politics or personal stuff/fuck ups(ofc they dont have to comment if they dont want to))..

    Im usually against new laws, because i think laws just fuck up peoples own moral thinking. But on this matter i think that there should be new law about lying/spreading false information in media. Something like deceiving audience and i think the punishment should be big even when its told to a small audience, and really big when its something in the news(like cnn or such) and it should depend on how many people that person is deceiving thru the media. These lies should also ALWAYS corrected(there should be law for this too) if someone notices that they were spreading false information.

    What do you think about this?
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    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Tough to regulate, and something that's been around forever (Hearst managed to get a war started based on slant). Outright lying, as opposed to slanting or framing facts, is probably slightly more rare. If you want to outright lie, all you have to do is add prefixes like "some say" or "our source". Now, your source could be crazy Subway Joe, but you ain't lying.

    I'd argue more for something like BBC. Probably, most kids in journalism school don't want to lie their asses off and want to be fair. But business interests, as well as catering to a market, can get in the way. Fox News caters to a conservative market, so they toss in a conservative spin. MSNBC, vice versa. It's the entire reason for "infotainment". A non-biased, publicly funded news source could bypass these issues and present as accurate of information as they can allow.

    Unfortunately, that same outlet would fail in ratings next to sensationalized, private news outlets, which are much more fun to watch, and can always find a way to justify or just scarcely sidestep a lie.
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    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    I hate lies but the best defense against lies in general is opening media and freedom of speech as opposed to regulating it. Its a wicked world and if lies were illegal "the man" would continue to lie and only dissidents or the little would be prosecuted.

    Kinda like how "war crimes" are prosecuted. If they were prosecuted fairly across the board Bush Jr. and Dick Cheney would be sharing a cell. In the words of justice Louis Brandeis "Sunlight is the best disinfectant"
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    Member TacEight's Avatar
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    To the OP, two points I would consider: the media is a business like any other; whichever station is the most accurate and honest will inevitably have the most consistent watchers, as the truth always comes out.

    Ironically before reading most recent reply I was going to say it's like blaming Bush or Obama for decisions on war that we have NO CLUE about except what the media says.

    I would suggest speaking with a doctor who knows. I am all for legalizing marijuana no strings attached, but I heard that THC actually bonds with individual braincells (possibly "protecting" them as well) which in turn causes the brain to think they are still there--thus not manufacturing more to replace the affected, which are incapacitated.

    It really is easy to spot a heavy-user "pot head" due to this or whatever. This information I obtained from my doctor when I casually mentioned that I'd be interested in trying it some day. (She didn't object to that, just told me that "fact." From the limited research I've done, I've found little except this disturbing fact which must be truth.

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    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    These lies should also ALWAYS corrected(there should be law for this too) if someone notices that they were spreading false information.

    What do you think about this?
    It would be just as easy for the correctors to distort the facts as it is for the mainstream media to do it. In fact, it would be even easier for the correctors to distort the facts, thanks to the level of authority they would be invested with. All they would have to do is declare any information false that happens to run against whatever axe they're grinding (and everyone has an axe to grind), and none of that information would ever make it to the mainstream public. From there, it wouldn't be a far step to the kind of censorship that existed under leaders like Stalin.

    You also have to consider that the information you consider false is considered true by many other people, usually including the ones who promulgate it. It's very seldom that someone sets out to tell blatant lies, and often there's just a simple difference of perception.

    Even so, you might argue that your opinion should dictate everyone else's--after all, it makes sense to you--but I could just as easily argue that mine should dictate yours.
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    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TacEight View Post
    i am for legalizing marijuana no strings attchhd but you should know thc (or whatever) actually bonds w/individual braincells (possibly "protecting) them) which in turn causes the brain to think they are still there, thus not manufacturing more to replace them. (they also become useless.) it really is easy to spot a pot head due to this. at least, my doctor told me that when i said one day I'll try getting high
    i dont really buy this, studies have also shown that cannabinoids seems to activate growth of new nerve cells in hippocampus

    http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn8155

    many doctors tell incorrect information about many stuff, most clearly shown in stuff like cannabis since they dont get a proper education about it. i think its very wrong that doctors are allowed to say things as facts where they actually dont have any idea about. about everything that any doctor will tell you about cannabis is based on information that they have gathered from a dodgy sources, but i wouldnt be surprised if they even told these lies in med schools since the teachers in the med schools have incorrect information about this also.

    other thing that pisses me about this is that people who are teaching people to be experts in med school for example doesent even teach them the correct information and even if they would start to do that now, it would take like 40 years until those doctors who spread false information retire. this is why i think doctors(and other professionals with similar authority) should be forced to go take some update classes in school like every 5-10 years


    Quote Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
    It would be just as easy for the correctors to distort the facts as it is for the mainstream media to do it. In fact, it would be even easier for the correctors to distort the facts, thanks to the level of authority they would be invested with. All they would have to do is declare any information false that happens to run against whatever axe they're grinding (and everyone has an axe to grind), and none of that information would ever make it to the mainstream public. From there, it wouldn't be a far step to the kind of censorship that existed under leaders like Stalin.

    You also have to consider that the information you consider false is considered true by many other people, usually including the ones who promulgate it. It's very seldom that someone sets out to tell blatant lies, and often there's just a simple difference of perception.

    Even so, you might argue that your opinion should dictate everyone else's--after all, it makes sense to you--but I could just as easily argue that mine should dictate yours.
    the kind of information that can be viewed from multiple angles and still be considered as true is called an opinion, i got nothing against people saying their opinions in media, but something like saying that cannabis will destroy your brains is a flat out lie.
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  7. #7
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    Meg Whitman is running for the California gubernatorial election. She has spent 145 million dollars on her campaign, while dwarfing the expenditures of prior candidates and even presidential candidates. Her opponents question whether it is moral for her to carry on like this, seeing as she promises to be more fiscally conservative if she gets elected. Some have speculated that perhaps the solution is to bracket the amount a politician can spend so that other, less fortunate politicians can have a fair shot. After all, even all the money harbored in the world can't make a good or even decent politician.

    However, bracketing the amount one can dole out for their campaign would be an infringement of the First Amendment, as it would limit their freedom of speech. Therefore, the contrapositive solution would be to establish a way for the less endowed candidates to gain fair amounts.

    A similar approach should be used for your problem. If powerful people are lying, their ought to be a way to facilitate the "truth telling" or even "whistle blowing" of other politicians. In this way, lies would still be afloat, but there would be a fair competition between dishonesty and honesty. Whether people would root for the appropriate fighter is questionable, but that's a matter of intelligence and free will.

    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    I hate lies but the best defense against lies in general is opening media and freedom of speech as opposed to regulating it. Its a wicked world and if lies were illegal "the man" would continue to lie and only dissidents or the little would be prosecuted.

    Kinda like how "war crimes" are prosecuted. If they were prosecuted fairly across the board Bush Jr. and Dick Cheney would be sharing a cell. In the words of justice Louis Brandeis "Sunlight is the best disinfectant"
    Exactly.

  8. #8
    Member TacEight's Avatar
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    Okay updated previous comment and added this SHOCKING TRUTH about marijuana video...
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    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post

    However, bracketing the amount one can dole out for their campaign would be an infringement of the First Amendment, as it would limit their freedom of speech. Therefore, the contrapositive solution would be to establish a way for the less endowed candidates to gain fair amounts.
    100% true. Remaining questions: Transparency of accounts and whether non-individuals (corporations) hold those same rights, as they cannot pay the same penalties (being non-physical entities and impossible to individually penalize or jail)? Or when does extreme public voice diminish the ideal of equal expression of ideas? After all, as masturbatory as I sometimes think our allegiance to the founding fathers is, they did not plan for a time in which people can be subtly influenced at virtually every moment of their life within society. If money has the power to buy propaganda and belief on a tyrannical scale that the founders would oppose, shouldn't monetary expression of money be limited?

    Moreover: Free speech has limits, and we all know it. There ARE groups in the US where some measure of honesty is required by law. Even you and I. Psychiatrists have certain obligations to be honest with what they can and cannot withhold when their patients say it. Credit card companies must, however duplicitously, put forward terms of contract. More accurately, financial groups may not sell something they know or even believe to be faulty to those who pay for their services. Or the idea that one can't say fire in a theatre, or can commit general fraud, something that brakes down to intentionally harmful lying: knowingly doing harm is not protected by the first amendment, direct or roundabout. Why is news exempt from a similar rule? Selling something one believes to be false or harmful in a large-scale way to someone who, in one way or another, is paying you for that service? Yelling fire is more direct in our lying, but usually lesser in impact. So where is the line?

    This may seem counter to some of what I said before, and in many ways it is, but it is a point of view I also have some sympathy for.
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    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    The thing about lying is that only certain people consider lies to be genuine lies, while most people can at least visualize them as slanted facts or half truths. If we really over-analyzed every statement being made we would not be in the same place as if we gave some leeway with what we consider true or untrue. Basically, what is being said is good enough, probably not the whole story, but trying to pry out a true story takes a tremendous amount of effort. Some people will go dig for these truths, but I doubt they will find enough satisfaction to keep up such activities for any appreciable length of time.

    This is something that afflicts everyone, but I agree that professionals probably should be held to a much higher standard when it comes to this sort of thing.

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